Gorton 2-28 milling machine

But..its a damned big and well constructed knee. Gortons are from

25%-75% heavier than an equivelent BP
Reply to
Gunner Asch
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Gunner Asch fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

So you're saying that the ONLY angled cut anyone would ever need to make is on material that heavy, or with cuts that aggressive?

C'mon, Gunner. Have you never had a piece of material that sat flat on the bed but required an angled surface on top? If you have, envision a shop duty where you have to do dozens of them with dozens of different angles.

Which would you prefer -- setting up the sine plate and clamping for every different setup, or just tilting the head to the desired angle and 'doing it'?

I understand that if I need a really _precise_ angle, I'm going with the sine plate every time. But if I have a bunch of stuff where +-1/10 degree ain't gonna matter, I want to tilt the head.

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

You continue to show how inexperienced you are with manual milling in every post you make to this thread, Wieber.

Reply to
Jonathan Banquer

Jonathan Banquer fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@l5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

Ok.. here's where I stand. You and I have had words in the past because of impressions we (maybe just I) had from things others said. They were words that shouldn't have been written, even if they were all true.

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt. You've recently said things that make me believe you know a lot more than what your detractors say.

Gunner just uttered something that doesn't mesh with what I know has to be done in an "odd job" shop. But maybe he has only ever done flat work, and just doesn't have my perspective on things.

He's also said a few things in the past that make me believe that - if he's not a competent machinist - he still knows quite a lot of stuff about "stuff"; including machinery and old-school electronics.

Maybe, since this is a "discussion group", my attitude should be that everyone has something to contribute (well... almost everyone), and I should just disagree or stay quiet, when I disagree with what's written.

Nothing Gunner or you or anyone else on this group writes is going to radically affect my life, and I'm not going to change anyone else's life, either.

After 30+ years as a technical manager, I know that kicking dead horses only ends up making my foot sore. The horses never complain.

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

snipped-for-privacy@l5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

"Gunner just uttered something that doesn't mesh with what I know has to be done in an "odd job" shop"

Based on my experience of working in mostly machining job shops for 20 years, tilting a head is done all the time and is not done just in "odd job" shops.

Reply to
Jonathan Banquer

The old "I used to be into necrophelia, flaggelation, and beasteality until I realised I was flogging a dead horse" joke.

Reply to
David Billington

Jonathan Banquer fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:

Again... That's in yours and my perspective on how work is done (yes, frequently), but maybe not in his. If I'm persuasive, maybe I'll sway his opinions. If I'm abusive, I doubt he'll listen.

LLoyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

snipped-for-privacy@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:

To save face Wieber will have to listen to you. Sadly, none of Wieber's cult followers will understand what this says about Wieber's machining experience.

Reply to
Jonathan Banquer

Neither a Goton or a Bridgeport are a "Rolls Royce". They both are serious compromises when it comes to rigidity. All knee mills are.

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

"If I had Bridgeport, it probably would be sitting on railroad ties behind the shop, under a tarp."

Most shops I've worked for still have a quite a few Bridgeport Series I type knee mills for secondary operations, for odd sized, bulky pieces, for simple prototypes, for repairs and for making fixtures. Often they are fitted with a Prototrak retrofit.

"If I had a Gorton, I probably would have scrapped it about twenty years ago."

Most shops did scrap them twenty years ago and now put the kind of work the Gorton's and similar heavy duty knee mills use to be used for on a CNC mill that has a fully supported table.

Reply to
Jonathan Banquer

"Most shops I've worked for still have a quite a few Bridgeport Series I type knee mills for secondary operations, for odd sized, bulky pieces, for simple prototypes, for repairs and for making fixtures. Often they are fitted with a Prototrak retrofit.

Space is too much a premium in *my shop...and since I've done fine without having one for going on 30 years now, I've come to conclude that the return on investment just isn't there for me, and that it's much better from a business standpoint to just farm it out....

--focus on what makes the most money the fastest...keeping the machining centers busy...

Having to shell out $45.00 once in a blue moon to someone with a Bridgeport for an odd job is a drop in the bucket compared to spending $4 grand on a machine that'll probably end up costing me more in lost time sweeping chips and having to walk around it than it will ever recover.

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

The Gortons tilt the head side to side. The BPs tilt the head side to side and front and back.

However...if you can do it to .01 degree...all the power to you.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Actually..I use 3 way tilting vises when I need to do precise work.

Like these

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Ive got a 3" Yaesa and a 6" Birmington.

I agree..you may be one of the small segment of people who use both tilts in your BP head, and all the power to you!

But Ive seen so little of it in my coming and goings..that I cant see an issue with a mill that doesnt tilt front to back.

Ive actually seen the accessory verticle slotter on the back of some BPs used far more than the "nod" of the head.

Unless you are doing really long pieces..if the head tilts side to side..it can be used just as well as a front to back "nod" (Im having a stroke moment here...cant remember what the "nod" movement is called..damnit

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

No power. It just takes a vernier scale protractor, and a little fidgeting to tweak the adjustment. Heck, I can read a sharply-engraved scale to within a 1/4-degree easily, even without a vernier scale.

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Gunner Asch fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

No argument there. I use(d when I had access to one) the side-tilt almost exclusively. My old Cincinatti #2 had a side tilt head. I sold it to make room in the shop, never thinking how much I'd miss it.

But... angle vises? Talk about losing rigidity! Besides, how would you mount and swing a 150lb 12"x18" casting on that little toy?

(I'll honestly say I don't know the quality of the Yaesa, but _anything_ from Birmingham is just chinkalloy trash.)

LLoyd

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

You..you..Technician !!!!

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Not a Chinese Birmingham...a late 1949s US made one. Rochester New York. A heavy heavy rugged bastard that is as solid as granite when its set.

The old farts could make Stuff work pretty well before the Chinks took measurements, decided what they couldnt afford and then built their crap in Chinkistan.

The Yaesu is right ridged little bastard too. In fact..Ive put it on the shaper more than once and it held the work in place just darby.

I did my Y axis gibs for the HLV-H on the shaper with it in fact.. Come to think of it..I found the gib blank to be flexing a thou or so and stuck on the big one. Pissed me off when I realized it was the gib flexing under the cut and not the vise...and Id redone my setup. Once Id gotten the gib in the vise with little overhang..no problems noted. And I was using grey ductile iron for gib material. I didnt have anything "softer" in ferrous alloys that would work properly.

As to how you hold a big chunk? Bigger vise of course!

Gunner

Gunner

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Doesn't that require you to tram the head each and every time? Tilting heads always seemed time consuming to me. (At least here, from my wannabe-machinist position.)

Reply to
Larry Jaques

If you want a quick angle that doesn't have to be super accurate you tilt the head and use the scale on the head for the setting.

If you want a super accurate angle you setup a sine bar as your reference, and then tram the tilted head on the sine bar to get it precise.

Reply to
Pete C.

Larry Jaques fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Yep, but with a tramming indicator (that itself has been 'trammed' to zero, then handled with kid gloves), and some practice it takes maybe two minutes. You don't take an absolute reading, anyway, but the average of the two 180 apart, if they're reading a tenth or two out.

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

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