See, Clinton was happy getting blown by employees within the fine walls of his taxpayer-funded pad. Bush & friends seem to be on fuknViagra, goin after every man, woman and child in Merka. Bush may not be an intellectual, but boy, dat muhfugguh is HUNG. Who's banging Condoleeza, anyway? Ever see her in pants? Dammmm, she's *built*, bruhs....
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:53:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:
Uh, which side are you saying dispronounces it?
Sites, please? Even RUSH pronounces it correctly.
Also..
Nuclea
The word nuclear as pronounced by someone with a New England accent, such as John Kerry.
Kerry: "I have an idear regading nuclea enegy"
New England Democrate: "I would never vote for Bush because he can't pronounce the word "nuclea". I don't like southerners because when they talk it sounds funny. Southern people are so wicked stupid, I can't frik'in believe it."
Its been pretty well accepted over the years that :
Democrats = "nu-clear" Republicans = nuc-u-ler
Gunner
Accepted by whom, ignoramuses?
Jeez, Gunner, of all the stupid things you've said over the years -- and that list is considerable -- this may be the dumbest one yet.
What you're implying is that Republicans are too ignorant to know how to read and speak. I'm a Republican. I can read and speak. "Nuke-yoo-ler" is for semi-literates.
Yabutt. semi-literate is quite well educated for a politician. :-)
Mark Rand RTFM
TooShay!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:37:34 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:
I don't buy that. Cheney pronounces it correctly, I believe, as do Rush and I (and did when I was a republican), and I believe you do, too.
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:37:34 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:
Or
I wonder....does Fast Eddy ever leave that turd world state he lives in? Or when he does..does he simply stay inside that turd world Beltway?
I notice that once again..he didnt bother to review the links I provided before shooting off his mouth again.
Shrug..makes him look quite the buffoon.
Fast Eddy is about as Republican as Nancy Pelosi.
fortunately..Ive got him kill filed..have had for about a year now..so I seldom encounter his buffoonish dreck except via piggy back on someone elses posts.
Now about the cites the stupid f*ck ignored....
When speaking about nuclear weapons, George W. Bush invariably pronounces the word "nucular." Is this an acceptable pronunciation?
Not really. Changing "nu-clee-ar" into "nu-cu-lar" is an example of what linguists call metathesis, which is the switching of two adjacent sounds. (Think of it this way: "nook le yer" becomes "nook ye ler.") This switching is common in English pronunciation; you might pronounce "iron" as "eye yern" rather than "eye ron." Why do people do it? One reason, offered in a usage note in the American Heritage Dictionary, is that the "ular" ending is extremely common in English, and much more common than "lear." Consider particular, circular, spectacular, and many science-related words like molecular, ocular, muscular.
Bush isn't the only American president to lose the "nucular" war. In his "On Language" column in the New York Times Magazine in May 2001, William Safire lamented that, besides Bush, at least three other presidents\u2014Eisenhower, Carter, and Clinton\u2014have mangled the word.
In fact, Bush's usage is so common that it appears in at least one dictionary. Merriam-Webster's, by far the most liberal dictionary, includes the pronunciation, though with a note identifying it as "a pronunciation variant that occurs in educated speech but that is considered by some to be questionable or unacceptable." A 1961 Merriam-Webster's edition was the first to include "nucular"; the editors received so many indignant letters that they added a usage note in the 1983 version, pointing out its "widespread use among educated speakers including scientists, lawyers, professors, congressmen, U.S. cabinet members, and at least one U.S. president and one vice president." They even noted its prominence among "British and Canadian speakers."
These days, Merriam-Webster's sends every reader who fusses about "nucular" a defensive, 400-word response letter. Click here to read it.
Webster's standard response to readers inquiring about "nucular":
We do not list the pronunciation of "nuclear" as 'nü-ky&-l&r\ as an "acceptable" alternative. We merely list it as an alternative. It is clearly preceded by the obelus mark \÷\. This mark indicates "a pronunciation variant that occurs in educated speech but that is considered by some to be questionable or unacceptable." A full description of this can be found in the Guide to Pronunciation on our website at
To say "the word is spelled (x), and therefore should be pronounced (y)" doesn't make any sense. Spelling is not a legitimate basis for determining pronunciation, for the following reasons:
1) English spelling is highly irregular. For example, "move", "dove", and "cove" are spelled similarly but pronounced differently. Likewise, "to", "too", and "two" are spelled differently and pronounced the same. 2) English spelling is frequently based on factors besides pronunciation. For example, the "c" represents three different sounds in "electrical", "electricity" and "electrician", but is spelled the same in all to show that the words are related. 3) Most importantly, spoken language is primary, not written language. Speaking is not the act of translating letters into speech. Rather, the opposite is true. Writing is a collection of symbols meant to represent spoken language. It is not language in and of itself. Many written languages (Spanish, Dutch, etc.), will regularly undergo orthographic reforms to reflect changes in the spoken language. This has never been done for English (the spelling of which has never been regularized in the first place), so what we use for written language is actually largely based on the spoken language of several centuries ago.All of the entries in our dictionary (pronunciation, meanings, etc.) are based on usage. We have an extensive collection of files which date back to the 19th century. Language is changing all of the time in all respects, and any dictionary which purports to be an accurate description of the language in question must be constantly updated to reflect these changes. All words were pronounced differently at some time in the past. There is simply no scholarly basis for preferring one pronunciation over another. To not list all pronunciation variants would be irresponsible and a failure of our mission to provide a serious, scholarly, record of the current American English language.
Wednesday, November 02, 2005 Thoughts on "nucular"
And now for something more trivial... in a lecture I attended two weeks ago, physicist Richard A. Muller of Lawrence Berkeley National Labs mentioned that Edward Teller --- one of the inventors of nuclear weaponry --- used the term "nucular" to refer to the weapons he was creating. As a result, many of the scientists who worked under him, as well as their lineal "descendants" in nuclear weapons science, adopted the term.
So, ironically, you have a situation where most educated people think saying "nucular" signifies that you're an uneducated rube, but if you go into the national laboratories where actual experts in nuclear weaponry congregate, some of those experts commonly say "nucular" and nobody bats an eye.
(Now, the spelling "nucular" never caught on in polite society, but it seems to me that (sorry Jacques) the oral form came first, and therefore the pronunciation "nucular" can claim correctness as easily as the spelling "nuclear".)
Nevertheless, this fact hasn't stopped journalists and even tenured linguists from devising explanations for this "mispronunciation". I wonder whether Kate Taylor, Geoffrey Nunberg, William Safire, or the editors of the various dictionaries concerned ever bothered to ask the inventors of nuclear weaponry as to how they believed it should be pronounced? .........
Now, given that "nucular" seems, anecdotally, more common among conservatives than liberals, and more common in Southern dialects of American English than in Northeastern or West Coast dialects, we arrive at an intriguing question. Is the "nucular" versus "nu-clear" split a reflection of that original social rift between the tribes of Oppenheimer and Teller? When G. W. Bush's says "nucular", is it because he and his father absorbed it from the conservative establishment, which in turn absorbed it from the hawkish national-security wonks who lunched with Teller in the late 50's and
60's? When liberals roll their eyes at "nucular", are they unconsciously recapitulating the contempt that Teller's peers felt at his betrayal and subsequent flight into the arms of the right?Oh f*ck yes..that Teller idiot..low life uneducated buffoon.
Laugh laugh laugh..f****ng assholes.
Laugh laugh laugh
Gunner
Gunner: Survivalist/Matchinist/Inteellectual Extreeordinaire-- You, me, & Cliff(y) has gots to do brunch one of these days..... :) On Cliff's dime, of course. :) :) :)
Great article!
Well, really, half of fukn Congress sez nukyooler, so what can one do? The majority, even the illiterate majority, roolz.
Well, how bout fukn Cornell West, scholar/historian extreeordinaire at fukn Princeton University (home of Einstein, btw), who still talks "mouf and teef".... goodgawd.....
It's a funny thing about pronunciation: is it really a window into the workings of the mind? I know that in science, mispronounced scientific vocabulary is 99 times out of 100 a dead giveaway of an un-studied hack/hustler. You see them *all over* in the alternative health movement--they don't have a *fukn clue* as to what's goin on, and of course, they don't care, cuz all they're doin is sellin shit. I wonder, w/ Cornell West's mouf and teef, if he has a fukn clue about history, or is it just more interpretive hustle? I think something somatic is going on, when people are in the *continued presence* of other educated people and just don't pick up on the details--one of which is pronunciation.
I try not to judge people on the small things, but have found, too often the miserable hard way, that often the little things *really do count*! WTF....
Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote on Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:37:34 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
I knew there was a reason I stuck with "Atom bombs" or more generically "Nukes".
Gunner, your pathetic Internet education is failing you again. You just read a story cooked up for a magazine article, and you have no way of evaluating it.
Here are some clues, which you'll probably never get because you swallow whole anything you read and wouldn't know where to begin with a critical reading of anything. Since the Third Edition of Webster's (1961), it has been an avowedly *descriptive* dictionary, rather than a *prescriptive* one. In other words, it makes apologies for non-standard usage, as a kind of anthropology project, rather than sticking to Standard English as the objective of a dictionary. For that reason many good writers don't accept is as an authority. My son at college has my copy of William Zinnser's book on writing which points out why the Third and following editions are no longer an authority on much of anything except the varieties of (mis)usage, or I'd quote it for you.
Here's a project for you: find out how many such "irregular pronunciations" involve introducing a letter that isn't there. The variations in the pronunciation of "c" that the author cites have nothing to do with making up letters that aren't in a word.
Finally, find out something about Edward Teller before accepting him as an authority on English pronunciation. I think you'll be disappointed.
English aside, Teller was a cocksucker. But I think he did pronounce nuclear correckly.
What I wanna know is, why various regional NYC-ites, like Archie Bunker, will say "terlet" and "berler", for toilet/boiler, but then come up with "woik" for work. Or, "soder" and "idear" for soda/idea, but then "huh" and "sistuh" fuh her/sister.
Some kinda contrary-ism? Code? The beginnings of rap, perhaps? This has been killin me, f'years.... yo.
Hey Ed, You, me, Cliff(y), and Gunner--we gotta do brunch, in Greenwich Village-- or mebbe a romantic candlelit dinner.... On Gunner's dime, of course...
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message news:F%h1h.90386$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe08.lga...
Edward Teller (aka "Dr. Strangelove," the character of which was modeled after him) was a Hungarian physicist, not an English grammarian.
Oh, jeez, don't let it eat you up. People make a living out of tracking those things down. You won't find them at Barnes & Noble, but there is lots of stuff available on how American dialects and pronunciation variations have evolved. Hot topics right now are the "Low-Back Merger" and the "California Shift." Yup, American English is still evolving right before our eyes.
Take a look at this:
My sister-in-law is living proof. I can hardly understand her some of the time, and she's from the freakin' Chicago suburbs. She's got the Northern Cities Shift, in spades.
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message news:P6i1h.90389$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe08.lga...
Deal.
-- Ed Huntress
accents are often regional..and sometimes on the surface, dont belong to what we would think is typical of the area.
Still a strong german accent in places in Texas..New Braunsfel is a perfect example. Once a totally Germanic area, little english was spoken..most of the local newspapers were printed in German, past WW2.
Who would have thunkit? Jawol...yall.
Of course, most accents are residuals of the folks that moved there. Yidish has spread its roots through many areas of the North East. The far reaches of northern Michigan, Wisconson, Mineeeesota have scandinavian accents, though Nortern Michigan was settled by a a very largel number of Cornishmen, from Cornwall England. Almost no Cornish accent can be detected today..though Finnish accent is common..or its morfed versions. Cajin...high speed French, right smack dab in the middle of the Deep South (course cajin tends to have Creol AND French roots)
The "black accent" is still wide spread, even among blacks who NEVER have left Los Angeles, let alone been in Missisippi.
There are some accented words that have crept into our language, because of the Media and Hollywierd. Ax me a question..and the various incarnations of Valley Girl and Surfer Dude Speak. Someone commented on encountering a Santa Monica Surfer Dude, complete with all the trimmings..from Portland.
Personally..I tend to be an accent chamelion. I only need to be exposed for a few hours to pick up the local accent, the more extreme..the faster I pick it up. I worked for an oil and gas exploration group for a few years..traveled around the globe. Used to tickle my parents when Id call home, and they would try to guess where I was. Australian "strine" set them into hysterics.
Though..when stressed or really pissed off..Im told I tend to revert back to my Finglish roots,eh? Most folks who talk to me on the phone, tend to think Im from East Texas, or South Texas. And when Im working with hispanics..I tend to do their accent, to the point of having people ask me where in Mexico Im from. Its been said I sound like Im from the area around Mexico City when I start speaking Espanol..or trying to. Shrug
Words..funny thing. I grew up in Michigan..where a soft drink is a "pop". Ordering a soda gets you a really funny look. I dont recall the last time I heard anyone in California speak of a "pop" and not be meaning a Tootsie Roll type of candy sucker. Ordering a soda in many places..will get you exactly that..a glass of soda. Yet others..have no idea what a "pop" is, and the same with others and "soda"
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that the English language is as pure as a crib-house w**re. It not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James Nicoll
Gunner, eh?
Fascinating that Fast Eddy..the master wordsmith..knows so little about the language.
Glad I have him kill filed.
Gunner, eh?
And it's so good to see how much you've absorbed, Gunner, through your lifelong study of English. One popular article at a time, you've created an entire world for yourself.
From the Library Journal, in its review of the new Webster's: "There is no retreat here from the descriptive philosophy that made Webster's Third New International Dictionary so controversial. This edition describes and illuminates use without labeling right and wrong."
It sure does. Webster's is anything-goes, but I think that tracing the etymology of "nuclear" from the pronunciation of a Hungarian physicist who spoke English as a second language is a new record, even for them.
Some people delight in that. Serious writers mostly scoff at it. If you want linguistic anthropology, join the Linguistic Anthropology Society. If you want a dictionary, (from the same Library Journal): "For those wanting a more prescriptive college dictionary, a new arrival, the American Heritage College Dictionary Third Edition (1993), derived from the unabridged dictionary of the same name, is the right choice."
That's what we use to get the Standard American English usages and definitions.
Ah, go watch the Pasty Cam, Yooper. d8-)
Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote on Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:59:48 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Lieber Gott, yes.
Every time I see one of the regional dialects, I have to laugh. My Dad is from Pittsburgh & Worcester Mass, with a bit of Canada tossed in. Mom was from Pasadena, with parents from Rochester New York. So nu, of course like a native I am speaking, yes.
Reminds me of the story of the Hasid who left New York for Atlanta to visit family. He gets off the train, in the long coat & the wide hat of the Lubivitcher branch, beard, payos, and tassels, the whole megillah. He looks up at some boys staring at him in ... fascination? "Vat, you hain't never before been seeing a Yankee?"
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.