How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

The recommended tightening torque for a 1/2-13 alloy SHCS is 120 ft*lb. I wouldn't be concerned about exceeding that by quite bit to remove the screw.

I don't understand the point of the hex wrench welded to the pipe -- use the breaker bar.

If you bust the head...its not a big deal. They tend to shear at the bolt, not the head body.

And you are going to need a pretty good sized pipe or breaker bar. Got an impact..set it to tighten..tighten for a couple seconds, then back it out.

Good luck.

Gunner

Kroil, PB Blaster. Build a little dam around the head to form a resevoir, let it soak overnight. Can make a big diff. Also heat.

Impact Driver? - its whats used here traditionally for such jobs. And keep on spraying it everyday with inox or whatever... Dont know if you could get a 3/8th hex fitting for the impact driver, maybe, maybe not. (ie, no idea) Andrew VK3BFA.

Ansgst sez:

"Kroil, PB Blaster. Build a little dam around the head to form a resevoir, let it soak overnight. Can make a big diff."

Good advice! Angst has described the proverbial "tinker's dam" made from clay or such.

Bob Swinney

Hit them with kroil and let set for an hour. Then try an impact at a low setting for an extended period. Also as Gunner suggested you might try tightening slightly and then loosening... at a low setting on your impact.

Things have helped me in some what similar situations.

1) Use a wrench like open end or crescent. On the allen wrench, right next to the cap head. Pull on the wrench and the allen at the same time. 2) Heat. Use a torch on the female threads. Might not be practical. 3) Get an allen tip, and then use impact wrench. For whatever reason, impact wrenches work. Not the "hit it with a hammer" type. This kind: On GM brake pins, I've had to cut the head with a dremel, to make the reverse of the ski slope head you seen in public bathrooms. And then beat it out with hammer, cold chisel, and lots of heat.

The first thing on my agenda, is to cut off a pc of the hex wrench that fits--let it stick up a half inch or so---get it's attention with a 2lb shop hammer---this compresses the rust under the head & the threads--you can try the impact now, if no results then soak..Jerry

Thumping the head of the bolt with a hammer may help to break the rust

-- this is trying to achieve the same thing that Gunner is recommending with his suggestion to tighten with an impact wrench and then back it out.

I'd thump it hard with a little hammer -- 1 or 2 pounds -- not a big hammer. If you want to move a bit of metal a long way, thump it hard with a little hammer. If you want to move a lot of metal a little bit, thump it softly with a big hammer. You've got a little bit of metal that you want to make sure to move...

Heat, cool, apply penetrating oil and wait, bang on it as you torque on it. Repeat. I've never done the heating thing on a heat-treated screw

-- with cruddy old grade 3 bolts or equivalent it often helps a _lot_ to get the bolt up to red or even orange heat.

Basically, rust is strong, but rust is brittle. If you can break the rust that's holding it in there, then it'll come right out. All the temperature cycling and beating on it and impact wrench stuff is to break the rust. Penetrating oil weakens the rust and keeps it from reforming bonds (does anyone know why?) so not only will it help directly, but it also helps that if the rust particles are all surrounded by penetrant when you break them, they'll stay broken.

With old cars, sometimes the best thing to do with a stuck bolt is to twist the head off, get the part that it's holding down off, then figure out what to do with the stub. That's a pretty extreme solution, though

-- usually the above is what you tell yourself after you torque on it and feel that sick feeling of metal giving way.

If I were in your shoes and I stripped out the socket in the bolt, I wouldn't hesitate to arc weld a right-sized bolt in there -- that'll both give you plenty of meat to get a wrench on, and it'll give you some pretty extreme temperature cycling on the bolt you're trying to get out.

It has been 6 hours. Did you try anything that was suggested?

Worse comes to worse, you can drill a shcs out. Since my employer uses a lot of carbide twist drills, I put an edge on one from the carbide scrap bucket and use that with a hand drill. I often break them or chip them, but I just grab another and keep going.

Once the head is off, the remaining portion tends to be finger tight.

Wes

JR North fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Iggy, those come out.

Soak them a couple of days in Kroil or whatever. Use impact-rated hex bits. Support the head in case you break the bolts. If they all break, it'll be easy enough to get the stubs out. You just don't want the head tipping over unexpectedly.

Putting a pipe near the vertical section of an "L" key won't keep it from twisting...

Same screws, same arrangement on my R2E4.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" fired this volley in news:Xns9D88C30FE5EAFlloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70:

I forgot to say, "but they won't break... the hex bit will break first"

LLoyd

I would not weld the allen wrench. YOu will anneal it causing it to bend. Just slip a pipe over it and pull. You will break the allen wrench before the bolt will snap. Don't hit the bolt with a hammer directly on the top or you will peen in the hex. If you want to hit it cut a small length off your allen wrench and put that in and then hit that. If you apply heat put the heat on the casting but not too much or there is a slight chance it could crack from heat stress. It is possible that there was locktite applied to the bolts. Heat will help release the locktite. A breaker bar and a allen head driver will also work but make sure it is a good quality tool (a life time warrenty helps). Impact wrenches suck for taking off bolts unless you have a large air supply and something that puts out at least 350 ft.lb. Don't be afraid of breaking off the head of the bolt. If it ever did break you just put a larger nut over the stub and weld it onto the stub. Two things will happen, you will have a good grip on the stud, and the heat from welding will loosen the grip of the stud in the thread and it will turn out easily after it cools. If you break your allen wrench I have a case of 3/8 of them made before there were china imports. I got them at an auction 15 years ago. Its one of the most common sizes on larger machines.

John

Impact wrench with socket with 3/8" mounted in it. Standard stuff in some sets. But a 3/8" with a hex key cut off.

Impact is like a black/orange hammer with shot in it...

Mart> Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and

And I do not think that they are rusty, just very strongly torqued.

Lloyd, I meant to ask you, how do you like your R2E4? Are you using the original control?

i

No, I cannot get to the mill until tomorrow. Tomorrow may be the "big day" when I put the mill on trailer.

Wes, I hope that I just get it with the proper tool. I have a breaker bar with a 3/8" socket and a piece of a 3/8" allen key to fit the socket and the bolt. I think that it should work.

i

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of any inch size I want.

i