ISO Ideas- microphone shock mount and/or wind screen

If the Sennheisers are ribbon mics, or condenser mics, then yes, good shock mounts and windscreens are needed. If voice-coil dynamics, probably a lot less so.

Aside from mounting it to the mic stand (you would want a 5/8-27 female thread and a slip joint to allow angle adjustment), an inexpensive way to go is a length of white PVC pipe with at least 1" difference between the ID of the pipe and the OD of the mic body, and O-rings set in notches in both ends to provide a cross-over similar to the '#' character. The central square should be noticeably smaller than the OD of the mic body, so the O-rings stretch a bit as the mic goes through the center. The length should be just a little shorter than the distance from the windscreen to the connector for best stability.

If you want to make it look nicer, then paint the PVC pipe whatever color works -- black to make the whole thing less visible (especially if the mic body is already black), or some decorator color to blend in with the scenery, if you are mounting the mics directly. You can even put them behind the scenery panels if you can get a cheesecloth section stretched across a large enough hole to be painted as part of the scenery, and put a black painted inside box behind it so it won't show if there is some light source back there during the show.

Instead of O-rings, you could also go for the elastic loops used to tie off the ends of braids (I think that they are called "Scrunchies" or something like that, but I think that the o-rings will be better for the task.

As for the windscreens -- those are a bit more specialized, and you may want to actually buy ones which properly fit the microphones in question. Note that they *will* disintegrate in ten to fifteen years, as will almost any open cell foam rubber. There are high density closed cell ones which will last a lot longer, but they would not be suitable for windscreens.

Good Luck, DoN.

Did this for years, great fun. Renting is your most expensive option unless you have a buddy in the sound business. For big shows where we didn't have enough equipment we usually hired a sound guy. They already have all the equipment and the package deal was less than renting. They can do lighting also and that stuff is "real" expensive. I kept an eye out in the pawn shops and picked up good deals on amps, mixers and etc. Just last weeek I saw a big mixer board for $100. They just don't seem to have any resale value. Mics are the hard part. To get good sound you need quality mics that haven't been dropped or abused. This pretty much precludes rentals except for the ceramics. For dialog and pricipals we used wireless packs with ceramic mics. Totally abuse proof and inexpensive. For chorals and whole-stage coverage I prefer active mics ( ceramic with preamps ). Usually three hung from the lifts. Three of these kits are well worth the investment if you do much stage work.

Never had any problem scrounging up enough stands and such. Churches, theaters and high-schools usually have plenty. Most guys in this sort of work are very generous at lending such stuff, sans mics. After one high-end arts group figured out I always returned their llights with new bulbs in them, they literally begged me to borrow their expensive spots and barns.

Never used any stand mics on stage that didn't reject out-of-axis sound. Just too much trouble.

starbolin

Also more questions:

Who's Sennheiser mics are they? What Sennheiser mics are they (Model #'s)? Why do you need to SHOCK MOUNT them AND have a WINDSCREEN? What has been done in previous years? What was being rented? What does the school own? Any other rental companies in town or in your area? Did you guys have a realistic budget set out from the begining? Or is this an after thought? Do you have anyone that is capable of running the sound system (moreso than just turning it on, and pushing faders)?

A few randomish thoughts ... If you feel you need a windscreen for the mics .... how close are the kids? If its a condenser microphone, you don't need to be right on the mic, you can even be a few feet away from the mic and it will still pick up (note, the further you are, and the more off axis you are from the mic ... the less signal is picked up).

Directional handheld mics are your best bet, if you aren't using any wireless lavalier mics (there you want to have omni-directional patterns). Positioned upstage of the speakers, and pointed at something useful.

Hanging mics above the actors is a BAD idea .. it will pick up more stage noise (shuffling feet and such) rather than actual voices (due to the positioning ... remember above where I said the further and off axis ??? your completely off axis if they're over head ... but your feet arn't!). Yes, there are a slight few times that overhead mics are used .. and generally, in a last resort situations, and the mics used, usually run into the $2000-4000 mark.

Again, a major thing that really doesn't stick in peoples minds, is the loudest source at the mic wins! Even if you have the best microphones, best placement, and quantity, if the person barely whispers into the mic, guess what, you'll barely hear them before feedback happens. They still have to project (or learn to project). Have they been taught that yet? That SHOULD BE DAY 1 ... learning to PROJECT, and to project it towards the audience.

When I used to work FT in a few theatres (1250-3500 seats), when a community or school group came in to do thier plays .. we had them stand on stage, as I would have a conversation with the LD/TD/whoever at the back of the house in the roof while standing beside them (usually 100-130 feet away through a wall). Basically, If we could do it ... there's no reason they CAN'T. People quickly learn the difference between Talking Loudly, and PROJECTING. Even works with the 'Pros' too.

Sorry to harp on projecting ... but, that is what makes everything work, no projection, alot of unhappy patrons, and they won't sit still or make as little noise as possible

Brad

On Apr 30, 8:04 am, bradells wrote:>

I'll give you the whole sordid story. :)

My daughter dances, sings, and acts. The stage is her element. She attends a magnet high school. The school specializes in communications, and has a TV/radio production studio. The little (250 student) school has no theater, no theater light gear, and no sound reinforcement gear. It does have TV production equipment that is apparently difficult to borrow. The drama club stages productions in the cafeteria, on a temporarily bolted together platform. My daughter mentioned to me that the drama club was in a financial hole because of the equipment rental costs of the last show (a drama of a student being turned into a serial killer by going deer hunting). For whatever reason, the adults leading the orginization selected wireless microphones (for each of the dozen actors) and lighting that included three followspots for a cafeteria with a platform perhaps 20 feet wide. The equipment rental cost was $2500 for a two night production. My head exploded. I asked why. The short answer was that nobody knew any better, and the kids don't make the choices. My daughter and I talked about the sound setups that she has seen in community and regional theater. I pointed out to her that electronics are cheap these days.

Well. I have done a fair bit of recording and sound reinforcement in the distant past, dropping off the face of the earth about the time my children started arriving. My basement still has odds and ends.

My son called from school. He is running the sound for a musical at a famous ladies college down the road. The girls get the geeks at the engineering college to do the tech work. I decided that it was time my baby learned to solder.

Nobody is teaching the kids the mechanics of theater. If it is taught, it is up to me.

We started with how one would area mike a stage. I pointed out to her that there were many good productions before wireless microphones, and they are a crutch, and we agreed the kids that use them will never learn to project. I show her the microphones as the arrive and we talk about what gives them their characteristics.

To answer the specific questions:

The microphones I am building shock mounts for are Sennheiser K3U/ME40 cardioid electrets. They are getting shock mounts and fur coats because they also will be used in video production. The windscreen also reduces any HVAC blower noise. I bought a couple of EV 644 shotguns, a Crown PCC130 boundary layer mic for stage center, and some mongrel omnis for hiding in the shrubbery. Good wireless microphones remain painfully expensive. I got an old Lectrosonic VHF on the theory that old and good was better than new, cheap, and unknown. The board is an old Brit 8/4 that I am running into a UREI mixer in order to use the VCAs in the UREI (to be able to ride gain in the back of the room and not run a mic snake).

When I am through with the kids they will know how to run a board and coil up cables. Or they shall have no pie.

The lights are another set of problems, and I haven't begun collecting.

I asked my daughter if she thought that I was putting together a system to further her education or because Daddy's a geek.

"60/40" she answered.

"Which way?"

"Geek".

Kevin Gallimore

For the play, the ME40's are fine ... how many do you have? You won't need a shock mount, or a windscreen (it does have one built in). Where is the HVAC related to the stage? Maybe a better placement may be in order? What about outboard EQ to cut that 80-130hz? (or is it higher?) .. but do try a windscreen if you can, but they would be pretty expensive for that style of microphone. I've mic'd Lead chairs in symphonies from 10-15' away with those (and the ME60) mics from the edge of the stage ... of course ... they won't believe you ... until you play back the recording!

You do seem to know where to put some mics. I generally use those in orchestra pits (ME60's slightly tighter pattern), or off the front of the stage, put roughly 4-8" above the stage deck and roughly 30deg angled up on a mic stand, and spaced out roughly every 8-12 feet, those ME40's should do fine at the 10-14 foot range, as long as the dialogue isn't directly on the down stage edge (the ME60's are my favorite mic for tap ... I can get a 40' deep stage covered with those mics) Can't you tell how much I love those ME60's (those and MD441's ... not much else of sennheiser that stands out as much as those imo ... and I've worked for them too! =P ).

Don't keep mics up that don't need to be, as you will get less GBF (Gain Before Feedback)

I really don't quite understand how you can run the VCA's out front on the UREI to control the 8/4 at the stage ???? Also do remember, the VCA will not control the gain of the preamp ... so if its clipping, lowering the proper VCA won't lower the gain, it'll just make it quieter, but its still clipping. Basically it affects the post fade sends of assigned channels, w/out affecting the signal itself (its like a master control over the pots, but they physically don't move)

The VHF should work ... given there isn't any nearby interference on the frequency it operates ... just make sure you keep on popping in fresh batteries (the older wirelesses feast on them!), and with the PCC160 ... If you have the bag (or a piece of closed cell foam - 1lb or mattress foam cut to size, 1/2" or so thick), put that down between the stage and the mic (and make sure its pointed in the right direction .... wide plate towards the back of the stage), and put a piece of tape on either side of the sound holes to hold it to the floor (also a good idea is to outline on the stage around it with bright/white/flourescent tape so the kids know when they are getting close to kicking it), you pretty much can roll off anything below

You certainly have your work cut out for you, and you seem to have a direction to head!

btw .. that $2500 doesn't seem out of line ... just the people in charge for not knowing any better, which now seems to be putting everything into a tough spot.

Brad

I have 3 K3Us, 2 ME40s, and a ME20. On the stage wings, I will probably try the EV644s.

Where

The board (an old Studiomaster) has fairly good parametric EQ. The HVAC guys get first choice in locations.

. but do try a windscreen if you can, but they would be

That's one of the reasons I'm making them. The other (homework) use for the Sennheisers is as boom mics for video, hence the the need for a shock mount and Zeppelin.

not much else of sennheiser that stands out as much as

I'm sure I will be coming back for advice- one of the K3/ME40s is mechanically flaky (an Ebay purchase).

I will use the 8/4 for group (zone) mixes and equalization, then feed the four output busses to the line in of the UREI, and do the final and master mix using the VCAs.

Also do remember, the

Certainly true, another thing to watch for. The UREIs use (obselete) DBX VCAs that have gain.

I worry about what else I haven't taught her.

Thanks for the advice.

Kevin Gallimore

How are you planning to mount the downstage mics in relation to the platform?

Ready-made foam windscreens by Windtech are available from Markertek and B&H Photo. It might be cheaper to buy them than the time and materials required to build them.