Lathe Choice?

I have a choice of buying a used Logan 10x24 in very good condition with change gears for about the same price as a new Grizzly G4000 9x19 with its
partial quick change gear box. What would be your choice?
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Tough call. I'm not too thrilled with under powered lathes like the Logan, but I also don't know much about the Grizzly. The one obvious negative about the Grizzly is it's smaller size, both in swing and center length.
I'm a bit curious about the statement "partial" quick change. Even the finest of lathes often have additional change gears with them for chasing unusual thread pitches. Are you implying the Grizzly has a partial quick change because it has some extra gears?
Having worked as a machinist in industry, it's entirely possible my expectations from machine tools would be far different from one that has no commercial experience. A friend has an Atlas lathe that he bought new and he's as happy with it as I would be with a Monarch EE.
One of the things that might help you make up your mind is how you intend to use the machine, and how well each of them are equipped. It's quite hard for one person to make decisions for another in this instance because of the wide and varied perceptions folks have about what is important and what must or must not be included with machines.
What ever you decide, just make sure you get a machine and start making chips. I think you'll enjoy it, as most of us do.
Good luck!
Harold
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A friend has an Atlas lathe that he bought new and he's as happy with it as I would be with a Monarch EE

There's a place for everything.
My Logan 10x20 has English/metric thread chasing; my two Monarch 10EEs don't. In fact, one 10EE has no thread chasing at all.
Among the better features of the newer (offshore) lathes is standardization on D1-4 Camlock or larger spindles, and spindles which can accommodate at least 5C collets and 1-1/4" material.
The Logan and Atlas lathes are usually limited to 1-1/2-8 workholding, and 3C or 3AT collets and 3/4" material.
Choices, choices.
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The Grizzly has extra gears that seem to be used for many of the combinations of threads. It only has one quick change lever with 9 positions.
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chasing
quick
Thanks. In other words limited choices of pitch without changing gears. That would be a nice feature for general machining where you might wish to have different feed rates for roughing and finishing, even if it is somewhat limiting where threading is concerned. It's something you probably would learn to live with, but it would be difficult to downgrade form having the quick change feature to not having it. Still a pretty tough call as far as I'm concerned. Why don't you let us know where you land?
Harold
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I was happy with my craftsman 12x36. Now that I own a 11" rockwell, I would not be happy going back to the craftsman. If I ever got to use a Hardinge or Monarch, I probably wouldn't be happy with the rockwell anymore either. Moral of the story is a homework assignment.
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:45:52 -0800, "Derek Hartzell"

As Chinese lathes go the 9x19 group does not have a very good reputation.
Problems include: poor compound mounting (apparently it flexes) lack of back gears (low speed just isnt low enough.) inability to cut its own spindle thread. (some stange metric thread but the lathe has an english lead screw.) no tumbler reverse (a pain to cut left hand threads.)
Yeah you can fix most or all of these problems (at considerable time and expense) but if you are just starting out with lathes why buy problems?
If the logan falls out for some reason or another you might consider one of the Chinese 7x's ($300-$500) and using the leftover money for tooling. Regards Bob
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I'm shocked that you havent been attacked for mentioning Chinese lathes here- there used to be a guy on this group who frothed at the mouth at the very mention of the word- I stopped frequenting the group because of his and a few other's racism- I just came back to get some info on and old South Bend- this guy seems to have disappeared from the group.
wrote:

its
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He moved to China.
--
James P. Riser
Http://www.JamesRiser.com
  Click to see the full signature.
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says...

OK I give up, which horrible malefactor racist are we talking about here?
I think the pendulum has swung the other way, I was waiting for the pile-on when one of the posters enumerated the flaws of the grizzly machine.
As for a logan being underpowered, those things a) can have whatever size motor you put on them, and b) use a flat belt, so anything over a hp is overkill.
Because the options he listed did not include "american pacemaker" or "monarch" or "pratt & whitney" I think the logan would be better in this regard.
Harold, if you think the Logan is a stepdown from your usual geared-head machine, just try the grizzly!
The comment that the logan also has a tiny hole though the spindle is dead on center. However I would wager that the grizzly in question has about the same size bore. So it's a draw there.
What small, inexensive lathe has a bore large enough to accept 5C collets right in the spindle? That would be a 10L southbend, and if the spindle bore were a real issue for the OP then that is the machine I would point him to. They can be had in the price range between one and three thousand, depending on condition.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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JAMES RISER

One can hope!

I get the distinct impression that we're not talking about the same person in each instance. The mention of "a few others" sort of gives that away.
snip--

I was under the impression that the Logan was a flat belt machine, but wasn't sure, so I alluded to the limited power instead, knowing full well that would be true, regardless of belt type. The point is that if you like to take roughing cuts, these small machines simply are not up to the task. It would border on the impossible for me to step back to machines like that. Possible, certainly, but only kicking and screaming as I was forced that direction. That is not to imply that others might not be happy with theirs, an example of which I provided. I am fortunate to have a machine I can use as I work, but understand all too well that not all are so fortunate.

Man, that paints a pretty ugly picture of the Grizzly. <g> Is it really that bad? I have no experience from which to draw a conclusion. I've been running my Graziano for so many years I've lost touch with other machines. I'm also quite spoiled from the experience, I might add.
Harold
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Photo of the grizzly 9" machine being discussed:
<
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000DD25F.01-A3TQ3OIW6NTQKL.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
A discussion of the ten inch logan:
<http://www.lathes.co.uk/logan/page2.html>
Bottom line is the logan will probably weigh in at about three times the grizzly, and the difference is pure cast iron. Expecting the 9" grizzly to go head to head with the logan would be the same as matching your graziano against the logan. No constest.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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Harold & Susan Vordos says...

really
been
machines.
<
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000DD25F.01-A3TQ3OIW6NTQKL.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Thanks, Jim. That pretty much says it all. One thing I've considered time and again is what lathe would I buy if I didn't have my Graziano? To be honest, there's nothing on the market today that comes close to the lathes that were available just a few short years ago. For example, think of the Mori-Seiki lathes, 17" for slightly over $7,000 when new (late 60's). They are, at the least, on par with the tough old Axelson lathes that, in my opinion, were better than the Monarch's, and I'm a died in the wool Monarch man.
I'm not convinced the change in the machine tool industry (perhaps better described as the demise of same) is in the best interest of people like us. Not everyone is interested in, nor can they afford, CNC. The fine quality machines are slowly wearing out, so I see a bleak future for the younger guys coming up. They simply won't have the options that used to be available.
Harold
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But for now the stuff coming out of shops is keeping the hobby alive. Don't forget a lot of those machines have a lot of life left in them. My first southbend (a 9" model A) did not have any *rust* on it when I bought it, but it did sport a 'war production board' tag, which means it was manufactured during, and possibly manufactured for, ww2.
And in 1983 it was still running, if a bit worn. My strong suspicion is that that thing is still turning today. They cannot be killed.
Its one thing to advocate a heavy gear head lathe for what it can do - and this is certainly a given - but machines like that southbend or logan or atlas suckered more folks into hobby machining, simply because they're easily transported and don't take up a lot of room.
I guess my point was that the sb of mine was already all worn out, well beyond the point where it could be used for production, even if one were dumb enough to try it. But in the hands of a 'time is not of the essence' hsm type, and the ingenuity to replace/repair/improve, those things can still beat grizzly at the game.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:42:59 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"

There will be a 15" Reed-Prentis coming available in my area shortly. Should go cheap
Gunner
"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
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wrote:

Yall seem to be missing the 11" Logan. 5C, etc A great machine for the home shop.
Or the 12-14" ones. Though I think they were made by somone other than Logan. Scott?
Gunner
"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
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I have been suitably chastised elsewhere for the omission. (by somebody more appropriate than you, btw!) Humble apologies to all for goofing up.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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wrote:

A Logan 11" lathe.
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - ssl "at" lathe.com |
  Click to see the full signature.
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Thank you for the addition! I think that most lathe manufacturers miss the boat on this issue, and the 10 inch SB and the 11" Logan are worth double what any other similar machine would command, simply because of the larger spindle bore.
Jim
================================================= please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================
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wrote:

Sigh...its not racism when one comments on a group of machines that tended to be pieces of shit. Its called calling a spade a spade.
If someone comments that a Fiat is a POS..that person hates Italians?
Get real.
Gunner

"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
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