Lathe Choice?

A Southbend

Reply to
Tony
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I have 2 Southbends, but as the question was a PRC9x19 or a Logan I'll say Logan without any hesitation.

I HAD a Jet BD920N, truly a POS. Jet was great about warranty parts, but the lathe just wasn't very good. Sorted out most of the problems over a few years, but was delighted to have the thing out of my shop.

Cheers, Stan

T> A Southbend

Reply to
Stan Stocker

But for now the stuff coming out of shops is keeping the hobby alive. Don't forget a lot of those machines have a lot of life left in them. My first southbend (a 9" model A) did not have any *rust* on it when I bought it, but it did sport a 'war production board' tag, which means it was manufactured during, and possibly manufactured for, ww2.

And in 1983 it was still running, if a bit worn. My strong suspicion is that that thing is still turning today. They cannot be killed.

Its one thing to advocate a heavy gear head lathe for what it can do - and this is certainly a given - but machines like that southbend or logan or atlas suckered more folks into hobby machining, simply because they're easily transported and don't take up a lot of room.

I guess my point was that the sb of mine was already all worn out, well beyond the point where it could be used for production, even if one were dumb enough to try it. But in the hands of a 'time is not of the essence' hsm type, and the ingenuity to replace/repair/improve, those things can still beat grizzly at the game.

Jim

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Reply to
jim rozen

Funny, my recollection was that whenever he would point out that a used machine could be purchased for *less* money that the asian one, and would be a larger, sturdier machine [1], the response from the prospective purchaser was always, "but I don't know anything about lathe inspection or repair!"

To which Pete would invariably reply, 'well the go ahead and buy the asian import, and by the time you are done you will know ALL about them!'

Why did Sr Albrecht depart? Don't know but I'll bet a bucket-O-suds that it had nothing to do with any discussion about grizzly lathes.

Jim

[1] ref. the current comparison between a logan 10" machine and the grizzly 9" tabletop lathe.

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Reply to
jim rozen

Yall seem to be missing the 11" Logan. 5C, etc A great machine for the home shop.

Or the 12-14" ones. Though I think they were made by somone other than Logan. Scott?

Gunner

"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Reply to
Gunner

There will be a 15" Reed-Prentis coming available in my area shortly. Should go cheap

Gunner

"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Reply to
Gunner

Correct.

"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Reply to
Gunner

A Logan 11" lathe.

Reply to
Scott S. Logan

Thank you for the addition! I think that most lathe manufacturers miss the boat on this issue, and the

10 inch SB and the 11" Logan are worth double what any other similar machine would command, simply because of the larger spindle bore.

Jim

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Reply to
jim rozen

I have been suitably chastised elsewhere for the omission. (by somebody more appropriate than you, btw!) Humble apologies to all for goofing up.

Jim

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Reply to
jim rozen

I probably sold an average of 2 lathes per month for the last 4 years. I sold seven in one month once. All of them American, except for the eMcos. I use a jet 1440D. Why? 1) I could give it away, but I can't sell it. 2) It is the best lathe I have ever had. It is a clone of a Colchester Triumph. It is older, came out of a school. I can only guess that Jet had a high end line at one time. I have another lathe that I am going to have to keep, it is badged "Cosmos" and was made in Hong Kong maybe 30 years ago. The electricals are crap, but the mechanicals are state of the art and as-new. It even has adjustable gibs under the front of the saddle. Only the best lathes have that, and not many of them. It is a 20" x 80". I'll bet I couldn't get $500 for it. I'm going to put an American motor on it and a drum switch and throw all of the other electricals away (except for the 2 axis DRO). I love American iron, but I have to sell what sells and use what's left, and in the process sometimes get some suprises. Incidentally, several months ago enco had an "overstock special" on their 9"x42" Vertical Mill, $2,395 delivered. I had just sold a used one for about that much, and sort of missed it, so I ordered one. The guy in our building who rebuilds Bridgeports (at $5,000 a pop) was upset. He set out to prove what a POS it was, cylinder squares, etc. He checked it out completely and was heartbroken to find it was as good as a new Bridgeport. "It won't last" he said. He might be right, but he might be whistling in the dark also. The used one I sold was sweet and it was 8 years old. There has been a profound shift in the manual machine market, but most of the real work is being done on CNC machines anyway. What does it all mean? I haven't got a clue, but the Chinese vs American debate is going to go away because soon (already?) there won't be a choice. Paul

P.S. I had some excellent Gisholt 1l turret lathes on ebay several times and couldn't get an opening bid of $500. Good thing, right now they are worth $600 for scrap. All this scrap is going to China. I have heard people scoff at how cheap and easy it is to get a boring mill or whatever. Go out today and try to buy one now. A conspiracy theorist may say the the Chinese are trying to cleanout all the reserve manufacturing capacity in this country, as represented by all the old machines sitting around in corners. The machine dealers have had it hard, and they can't belive their luck, scrap at $150!!! There is something happening right now, boys, which we will be talking about for years to come.

Reply to
6e70

Hmm. This sounds amazingly plausible. Then again it could be cheaper for the Chinese to make new machines from scrap iron rather than starting from ore. But even including the transportation costs?

Although, those container ships are going back empty from the US anyway.

This sounds like a new version of the Triangle Trade.

Jim

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Reply to
jim rozen

Yeah- that's the guy- I just could not remember his name- He absolutely hated everything Chinese and anyone who bought or sold them. Of course his posts were happily clacked out on a computer which was most likely assembled from Chinese components. Maybe he moved to England and now stands at Marble Arch in Hyde Park every Sunday and joins all the others preaching all sorts of weird philosophies.

As far as the " demise" of the machine tool industry stuff, there never was any major industry in this country offering machines tools to the average guy. Machine tools were designed and built for industry for the most part with the exception of a few small units Like Atlas etc. sold through stores like Sears and Woolworth. Even these small lathes at the time were very expensive in relationship to the average workingman's salary and only available to better off families. It was wartime economies that brought a lot of machinery to the general public- US government contracts in WW I and WW II essentially mass produced thousands of high quality machines with no regard for profit/loss considerations. Post war surplus sales made these units available at low prices to a lot of people ( and they are still circulating). Had companies like Logan, Monarch South Bend tried to produce those and sell them to the general public as consumer items, they would never have survived. In fact without the wartime orders most of those companies simply faded away and remain only as shadows of their former selves eking out a living selling off NOS parts and re-cycling used parts. It has been the opening of China since 1979 that has made NEW low cost tools of all types available to the average guy. And to re-state a fact lost on Pete Albrecht, without the same low cost Chinese imports about 90% of the folks on this group would not be able to afford a computer to read all this stuff.

"Lennie the Lurker">

Reply to
turnitdown

Fiat 124 sedans could not be killed Fiat 128 was POS Fiat Spider Convertable, also could not be killed but needed "TLC" (1st hand experience on all)

Also I changed a Fiat water pump in about 15 minutes. Didn't even have to get under the car. If you wanted to be an "oblivious" American car driver who barely knows what oil it, then Fiats were not for you. If you want to be "one with the machine" they were fun. Actually a great car for a HSM'ist.

Reply to
Len S

|I just got a flyer from Harbor Freight. They have their 9" x 20" on sale at $599.

that looked to be a new model, stripped of the QC. Seems like the standard 9x20 had a QC. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

I learned to turn on 9" South bends. For 20 years I had only a 6" Atlas. While pining for a bigger lathe, I looked at the 9x20 Asians. A couple years ago, I obtained a 10" Logan. While waiting for parts, someone gave me a 12" Atlas.

Of all of these I would choose the 10" Logan. (an 11" would have been nicer, but if you spend your life looking for a supermodel who can cook, you'll probably never get laid)

The 9x20's bed was light and narrow which, I felt, left it light in the rigidity department. The head stock seemed poorly mounted and the tailstock did not seem to have a large enough base to male it rigid.

The 12" Atlas also had a flimsy bed. It was designed for a 10" lathe and was marginal for that

The bed on the Logan is rigid and 7" wide. It is capable of making a a fairly stout cut without flopping around.

My opinion of the Southbends is working from old memories, but they are about neck and neck. I feel however that I am taking much heavier bites than I ever dared with the SB, but that may also be due to increased experience.

The QC gearbox is a great thing however, but I do not think it would overcome the 9x20's short comings.

Paul K. Dickman

Reply to
Paul K. Dickman

I just sold a decent Craftsman/atlas 12x36 for 650 with 4 chucks and some tooling. I think it is much superior to any 9x20. I also sold a craftsman

12x36 with QC gear box for 900.

Good deals are out there! chuck

Reply to
Charles A. Sherwood

And he would conviently ignore any such statements as "I don't have room" as being totally false. Any other rational argument would be put down as unfounded. Pretty good when he played God and he's just a goddam kraut.

And his total experience with imports from the orient consisted of twiddling the dials in the local harbor fright. I'm sorry, but that's not an expert opinion, it's his rockskull at work.

As long as he did, I don't really care. Everything he posted was either belittling or negative. He's not a credit to the metalworking community, and damn sure not a professional. I've spent 44 years actually working metal, not telling others how I think it should be done.

Reply to
Lennie the Lurker

That's bullshit, Lennie, plain and simple. Pete didn't like most of the import stuff, it's true, but I don't recall him as regularly belittling anyone. I think he had a pretty good sense of humor - maybe it just didn't appeal to you. And I do recall him as contributing quite a bit to the group.

John Martin

Reply to
JMartin957

The Fiat 124, neat little car, the BMW 2002 of Italy.

Reply to
Simon Jester

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