McChrystal fired

How is it possible that there hasn't been a single mention of this in this group of opinion spewers? Do you armchair generals, lawyers and
politicians really have nothing to say?
Just wondering.
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I was busy thinking about metal related matters, personally.
i
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I've been trying to behave.
The military is under civilian control. McCrystal, who I have no doubt is an excellent warfighter and leader, crossed a line you do not cross unless you are willing to give up your job. Looks like he was willing and from what I can tell the Army and his men was his life. IOW, he fell on his sword.
I'd like to read Don's take on this. This is the (former) enlisted view.
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Wes wrote:

The Marines in Afghanistan knew what a cowboy McCrystal was and will tell you he's a small team leader. I've also hard the term asshole but that isn't really the case. He came out of JSOC and those guys don't think they are part of the regular Army. Any command bigger than 100 guys was over his head in terms of technique.
He was the right guy for Afghanistan but the wrong guy to be in charge. Peter Principle rules. Should have let him lead special forces there and put someone else with a little political ability at the top.
--
John R. Carroll



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On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:37:40 -0700, "John R. Carroll"

=========This time next year he may well be glad that he got out when he did.
From the R/S interview it appears that he was not well served by his staff in that they have far too great a tendency to say the "wrong" things even [or particularly] if these are factually correct.
It is time for the west including the United States to admit they no longer have the stomach for the actions required to "pacify" or "civilize" traditional tribal cultures, i.e. liquidation of the male inhabitants over 12 and confinement to isolated reservations of any survivors where their culture can be eradicated and plagues allowed to flourish.
Given the Russian/Soviet experience/successes in "integrating" restive native cultures,e.g. Mongolia, Siberia, Ukraine, Baltic Republics, and the availability of MVD/GUPVO troops to implement the "integration," it was the height of folly and hubris for the U.S. to think they could do any better with Coca-cola and MTV, especially as these were directly counter to the prevailing cultural/tribal values. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan http://www.russiansabroad.com/russian_history_364.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Border_Troops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz
also see http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/antiguer-ops/AG-BALKAN.HTM http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/balkan/20_260_2.htm http://www.algora.com/232/book/details.html
--

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:27:32 -0400, Wes

Could YOU work for Ali Bama? Nor could I, and likely nor could McChrystal. He has been sideswiped by this admin since it came to office, if not before.

Yeah.
-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:27:32 -0400, Wes

Public display of disrespect for leadership is not acceptable for any military personnel.
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:47:28 -0500, Don Foreman

I should have said "chain of command", because genuine leadership is nearly always genuinely respected by military people.
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On 6/24/2010 1:33 AM, Don Foreman wrote:

Apparently the Point is different from the Canoe Club. At Canoe U we had to memorize and recite on demand a little ditty: "Take heed what you say of your seniors, be your words spoken softly or plain, lest a bird of the air tell the matter, and so shall ye hear it again."
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:08:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"

The Point is quite different from the Canoe Club.
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:47:28 -0500, Don Foreman

While this is true, it was staff, not the General, who gave the reporters the -vast- majority of the controversial statements.
-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:10:47 -0700, Larry Jaques

A C.O. is always ultimately responsible and accountable for the actions and performance of his unit and staff. If they transgress, it's up to him to take appropriate corrective measures.
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Don Foreman wrote:

Extension of that logic would require that Obama resign. (I haven't read the article) By most accounts McCrystal was effective at his job. And the Afghan government officially requested he stay at his post. I think a Come to Jesus talk in private would have resolved the issue, and we'd still have a proven leader in an area where we need all we can get.
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wrote:

Nope. It would require that he fire McChrystal.
McChrystal was in immediate contact and command of his staff. Obama was half a world away from McChrystal. And the general contributed to the disparaging remarks himself. Obama did not.

Whatever the Afghan government wants is sure to be something that serves the financial interests of Karzai and Company, not something that serves the interests of the United States.

What we need is to get the hell out. Petraeus is more likely to pull off the political and PR sleights of hand that will make that possible. Good morning, Vietnam...
--
Ed Huntress




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On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:51:08 -0500, RBnDFW

=========Like some many of this type of situation there are two problems.
A "come to Jesus" meeting would most likely have solved the first problem, which is an excessive supply of opinions and gas from a group that should have known better, i.e. the General and his staff.
The larger problem is the precident/example this sets for the Officer Corp qua civilian control of the military. General McCrystal would/could not tolerate one of his subordinate and/or their staff making similar observations about him or his staff, as this would be fatal to good order and military discipline [and most likely a lot of "grunts" in the field].
--

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:40:41 -0500, Don Foreman

Yes, you're right. But the way it happened, it sure seems likely to me that he pulled this on purpose, to get away from the current regime, and I don't mean the one in Afghanistan.
-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 18:49:57 -0700, Larry Jaques

We can only speculate on his motivations, but I'm inclined to doubt that his intent was merely to "get away". He could have done that by quietly resigning or retiring.
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:39:38 -0500, Don Foreman

Yabbut, his staff (or others) might have advised him to shoot himself in the foot publicly so Ali Bama might not have any other choice. Or he might have tried and The Chosen One declined his resignation. We probably won't know for sure until the book comes out.
I think we can all agree that it was embarrassing to the current resident of the White House if only for being the truthful opinions of his minions.
-- Pain makes man think. Thought makes man wise. Wisdom makes life endurable. -- John Patrick
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    --My two cents: how could a guy with that much military background manage to shoot himself in the foot? ;-)
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Didja see my stuff
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : at 2010 Maker Faire??
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AD or sending a message.
Wes
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