McChrystal fired

It looks like he'd rather be in the brig than associate with Obammy...who can blame him?

Apparently the Point is different from the Canoe Club. At Canoe U we had to memorize and recite on demand a little ditty: "Take heed what you say of your seniors, be your words spoken softly or plain, lest a bird of the air tell the matter, and so shall ye hear it again."

I agree the military is not a democracy. And officers must behave with respect toward their superiors.

But I still think that Obama will regret firing McCrystal. Civilians will look at it as Obama not being able to withstand criticism. And Obama still needs to work with people that do not agree or respect him. Midterm elections are coming. He may be forced to deal with a Republican Congress. Most of the people that Obama deals with are not military.

I think Obama had alternatives. Obama could have reprimanded McCrystal for not maintaining discipline among his staff. I did not read the RS article, but I do not think McCrystal was quoted.

=20 Dan

I also find it hard to believe that this was an accident. One does not rise to such a position being unpolitical and naive. He had to know that telling Rolling Stone such things would cause a firestorm, and that there would be big consequences.

Particularly if everything substantive said turns out to be true.

Especially if everything substantive said turns out to be true.

I plan to read the Rolling Stone article (currently deflected by printing problems), but my going-in guess is that the intent was to cause political motion by poking Obama in the ribs.

Joe Gwinn

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:18:24 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote the following:

Rolling Stone Mag certainly isn't a bastion of conservative thinking.

SOMEBODY still likes McChrystal.

reading this, wouldn't it be a hoot if the Afghan leaders told Ali Bama to stuff it, that they'd only deal with Uncle Stan McC? ;)

-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 22:47:28 -0500, Don Foreman wrote the following:

men was his

While this is true, it was staff, not the General, who gave the reporters the -vast- majority of the controversial statements.

-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang

Truman put up with far more from MacArthur before he had had enough.

I do not think that Obama had any choice, he had to fire him.

i

to give up

his men was his

A C.O. is always ultimately responsible and accountable for the actions and performance of his unit and staff. If they transgress, it's up to him to take appropriate corrective measures.

On Jun 24, 11:35=A0am, Ignoramus11945

Why do you say he had no choice? Do you think that firing McCrystal will change what anyone thinks of Obama and his administration?

I once had an engineer in my group that was a competent engineer. But he could not tolerate management. We got along pretty well before he was transferred into my group. But he could not get along with the supervisor of the group he was in. So he was transferred into my group, and as soon as he was in my group, things changed.

If he was talking to some people and saw I came into the room, he would raise his voice and start making derogatory remarks about me. Sure I could have complained just as his former supervisor did, but he was a competent engineer. And it was so obvious that he did not get along with anyone who was his supervisor, that his remarks did not bother me. To me competence is more important than being civil.

Dan

I think that McCrystal behavior amounts to insubordination, which cannot go unpunished.

Things change a little bit if instead of operating a sliderule, that subordinate is commanding an army.

i

Insubordination in my dictionary is not obeying a direct order. McCrystal on the other hand was doing what Obama wanted. His biggest offense seems to be saying that Obama looked intimidated and not telling his staff to cut out the remarks about the administration.

Dan

an excellent

willing to give up

his men was his

Extension of that logic would require that Obama resign. (I haven't read the article) By most accounts McCrystal was effective at his job. And the Afghan government officially requested he stay at his post. I think a Come to Jesus talk in private would have resolved the issue, and we'd still have a proven leader in an area where we need all we can get.

The incompetent are intimidated by those they recognize as competent.

Nope. It would require that he fire McChrystal.

McChrystal was in immediate contact and command of his staff. Obama was half a world away from McChrystal. And the general contributed to the disparaging remarks himself. Obama did not.

Whatever the Afghan government wants is sure to be something that serves the financial interests of Karzai and Company, not something that serves the interests of the United States.

What we need is to get the hell out. Petraeus is more likely to pull off the political and PR sleights of hand that will make that possible. Good morning, Vietnam...

People make mistakes all the time. I think this is similar to Obama involking a moratorium on deep water drilling. He thought everyone would think it was the thing to do. Then he found out that about

300,000 people would be affected and said BP ought to be responsible for everyone out of work. Fortunately a Federal Judge ruled that Obama did not have sufficient cause to shut down deep water drilling.

Dan

Why do you say he had no choice? Do you think that firing McCrystal will change what anyone thinks of Obama and his administration?

I once had an engineer in my group that was a competent engineer. But he could not tolerate management. We got along pretty well before he was transferred into my group. But he could not get along with the supervisor of the group he was in. So he was transferred into my group, and as soon as he was in my group, things changed.

If he was talking to some people and saw I came into the room, he would raise his voice and start making derogatory remarks about me. Sure I could have complained just as his former supervisor did, but he was a competent engineer. And it was so obvious that he did not get along with anyone who was his supervisor, that his remarks did not bother me. To me competence is more important than being civil.

Dan

I take it he was not a civil engineer.

Very good!!!!

Dan

Haven't you heard? There are no civil engineers!