Metalworking: Shaking my head in disbelief!

ICK! If you are not going to countersink, use a button head screw.

You do not want people who don't care enough to make it look professional. Sooner or later, those people start saying, "Close enough" too often.

Stuart Wheaton fired this volley in news:8d5db $4acbeb23$d06602ac$ snipped-for-privacy@FUSE.NET:

FCS! Did he say he was going to use flat-head screws in un-countersunk holes?

Please. ASSUME that even "shorting" the design for appearance, he'd still use the appropriate fasteners for the job. Even the friggin' Chinese do that, and they don't give squat for quality, safety, value, life, honesty, integrity... aw, shit... they don't give a crap about anything except taking your money..., and they STILL use the appropriate screws.

Wouldn't you just automatically give an American engineer snaps for having that same skill WITHOUT instructing him on the proper way to do it?

LLoyd

Shouldn't the holes be "counterbored" for socket head cap screws?

Hey, it only takes a click on checkbox to c'bore (you did mean c'bore?) a hole, and one more check to put a cham on it. What's the big deal?

Hexheads are cheaper and grade 2 is just fine for most stuff. But, I DO know not to micromanage. It's when they hijack my designs and add foof that I speak up. I started doing prints in PDF.

mattathayde had written this in response to

:

------------------------------------- Buerste wrote:

while i agree with function being important i have been trained to pay attention to cosmetics due to studying jewelry/metal working as part of my BFA. i think function comes first but if it looks like junk why will i want to sell it, and why will people want to buy from me.

ya i agree there a lot of people that go over board but i sure dont want to take father my father in this area since he makes things that while sturdy as a brick wall look horrid

-matt

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Sounds like you need to have a "meeting" with your engineering team & their leader (if they have one).

Extra features cost money. Maybe your design team would change their mind about adding unneeded features & fastener choice if they had to pay the difference between your desired design & their delivered design.

Looks can matter (who's going to buy a luxury item that looks like crap) but function & cost are important.

Maybe your engineers need a bit more schooling or supervision. Designing a part or assembly like it's destined for the space shuttle when it's going on a washing machine is engineering malpractice.

There is a difference between micromanaging & spelling out your design criteria / philosophy. Given proper guidance they should be delivering what oyu what not what they want. Your engineers should be working for you, not getting paid to fulfill there own desires. Are they working or is this a hobby?

When you ask for & want a Yugo they shouldn't designing & delivering a Cadillac.

cheers Bob

I counter sunk some SHCS yesterday. Didn't need too other than the screws I had were too short to use any other way ;) Did look more 'pro' though (hidden under a cover ;) )

Wes

You sink 'em in so when the heads strip out you can't grab 'em or grind 'em, you gotta drill 'em or weld to 'em.

Dave

I think machine designers get carried away with them (SHCS). The compound on my lathe uses them. 'Gotta blow out the chips every time, to get the wrench in.

Bob

That's it! Of course - how could we have been so dense as to not see it? [insert sarcasm emoticon here].

Bob

I agree with your approach. But the difference in price for grade 2 and grade 5 is very small. So I would vote for grade 5 bolts. Using grade 5 bolts you might be able to use one less bolt. And using grade

5 bolts might mean the bolt can be backed out five years later. Instead of having the head shear off and all the extra pain that involves.

Tell your engineers that one definition of an engineer is someone that can do what any damn fool can do, but the engineer can do it for less money.

Dan

Aesthetics have an important place IMNSHO. There's just something 'right' about a countersunk socket head fastener. Real creativity in engineering can't easily be attenuated; the need to do it 'nice'is strong with these types. JR Dweller in the cellar

Buerste wrote:

I agree with your approach. But the difference in price for grade 2 and grade 5 is very small. So I would vote for grade 5 bolts. Using grade 5 bolts you might be able to use one less bolt. And using grade

5 bolts might mean the bolt can be backed out five years later. Instead of having the head shear off and all the extra pain that involves.

Tell your engineers that one definition of an engineer is someone that can do what any damn fool can do, but the engineer can do it for less money.

Dan

*****************

Good one!

I agree with your approach. But the difference in price for grade 2 and grade 5 is very small. So I would vote for grade 5 bolts. Using grade 5 bolts you might be able to use one less bolt. And using grade

5 bolts might mean the bolt can be backed out five years later. Instead of having the head shear off and all the extra pain that involves.

Tell your engineers that one definition of an engineer is someone that can do what any damn fool can do, but the engineer can do it for less money.

Dan

Use the correct grade bolt. Grade 8 / 5 ain't always the best. You need a bolt that will spring stretch in preload more than the movement of the bolted pieces. Otherwise the bolt loosens.

Shouldn't the holes be "counterbored" for socket head cap screws?

Give that man a cigar!

Yep, they sure as hell should, if anything.

Harold

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Dan

bolted pieces. Otherwise the bolt loosens.

Why not use grade 2 hex heads? And, why chamfer the c-bore other than cosmetics?