New use for a bandsaw

-snip-

To my knowledge most women are happy to express a total lack of knowledge about mechanics.

Most men are happy to demonstrate -- on their own vehicle, if necessary.

And why do you assume he assumed that? It makes me think that you may be thinking with yours and "assuming" everyone with testicles must be a MCP.

There's a major difference between idiocy and ignorance, and it's fair to say that most of us are ignorant about a lot more more things than we're knowledgable about. Renaissance men (or women) really don't exist anymore.

Just where in our mainstream educational system do today's students, especially the girls, get an opportunity to learn about jumper cables and how to use them?

That's great, and I appreciate your satisfaction of doing a job well and the good feeling you got from saving that money which you can now use for something enjoyable you want. I'd feel eggsackly the same.

Now riddle me this....Give us your best guess about what percentage of ladies coming out of any Macy's department store in an urban area would answer an honest "yes" if you stopped them and asked them if they knew how to use jumper cables. I'd wager even money that it would be less than 20% of them. And I'd also wager that it wouldn't be higher than 50% for males in next year's graduating class from the Harvahd School of Law.

Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?

It sounded to me like he was describing a guy who loves his family and was willing to check if they knew about jumper cables and/or take the time to teach them something which might save their skins if the situation they were in was desperate enough.

Peace,

Jeff

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying? (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said, "And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.

Blink blink...reality check time Leo....

Tell you what Buddy...why not conduct an informal poll at the shopping mall and ask passersbye if they know how to use jumper cables properly.

Ask both males and females. Post the results here.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the s*it out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:53:45 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo Lichtman" quickly quoth:

No, only people looking for sexism would have thought that. Neutral parties would have realized that the implied meaning is that women are generally less trained in that "art" and have less motivation to learn. When it comes to auto maintenance and repair, many men and still fewer women want to do the work. Ditto machining and welding. Face it, it's dirty work and the vast majority of the population wants nothing to do with it. There's nothing sexist about that at all.

And he would have been judged quite Politically Correct. Feh!

------------------------------------------------- - Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design - nowhere. - *

And so you think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner which correlates to obviousities?

It's all in the genetics, Leo.

If you've read any of Jared Diamond's works ("Guns, Germs and Steel", "The Third Chimpanzee", or "Why Is Sex Fun.") you probably noted that from the time man stood upright, his role has been that of the the hunter, the tool maker, and the physical defender of his family. Women have been intelligent and caring family unifiers and supporters. Most of the men and women of today's world population still exemplify those characteristics.

Civilization wouldn't have made it to the (somewhat sorry) state we're at now without it being that way. Both genders need and depend on the inherent traits qualities of the other to survive.

Sure there are lots of exceptions, but firing off a rant about Jim's remark has me wondering if handysmurf sleepst on garnet paper sheets to make her that sensitive.

I'm pretty sure most of the ladies I'm aquainted with would accept Jim's words as being accurately descriptive of the status quo, and if pressed would probably make some sort of self-deprecating joking remark about their own lack of jumper cable prowess, as would I about being born without a "style gene".

Jeeze, now I know how Larry Summers must have felt earlier this year:

Jeff

I believe I found the problem Mr. Summers had....

"''Here was this economist lecturing pompously [to] this room full of the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues "

Women who have made a career of, in many cases...spewing bogus or ill conceived agendas with little connection to reality.

I should mention that my sister, is a very well thought of engineer with two doctorates in hard sciences, and has been a tomboy since she could walk. She has never married, so children were never an issue, but only because many men feel ill at ease with a woman smarter or handier then they. Her latest boyfriend seems to be at least as smart and as handy as she is..so its been a good match for the last 8 or so years.

But even she admists to being a rare anomoly among her female peers.

And damn she can run a pretty weld bead...sigh....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the s*it out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: And so you think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner which correlates to obviousities? It's all in the genetics, Leo. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, I think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner which offends peoples feelings. Did you notice that "handysmurf" is the OP of the thread titled "Metal Chair Repair"? She is dealing with a broken screw extractor in her HUSBAND's chair. Reading between the lines, I conclude that she is more mechanical than he is, *in spite of genetics.* When you compare two groups, such as men and women, where there is a statistical distribution of some characteristic, such as height, or physical strength, or mechanical aptitude, you will find the one group peaks higher than the other. Yet, there will be a large overlap in the distribution curves, so not every member of the "superior" group scores higher than every member of the "inferior" group.

Evidently, handysmurph scores pretty high in mechanical aptitude, and doesn't like being talked down to.

OK, I think we're pretty much in agreement on the subject of distribution and overlap of mechanical apptitudes, Leo.

Where we differ is that I don't think Jim was talking down *directly* to her, since he wasn't responding to anything *she'd* said in a post.

It was she who chose to react the way she did and jump him over it.

You seem to think her response was justified, and I don't.

We'll probably never get any closer than we are already on this one, but it is interesting to me that *she* hasn't yet jumped in to further defend her reasons for accusing Jim of MCPism.

Peace, let's get back to making chips now...

Jeff

I know Jeff well enough to know that he makes no such assumption. He might better have said "family members less mechanically inclined", which happens to be the women in his family -- who are very competent in other areas. He works at the company his wife operates.

Might you be able to could cook a meal, sew a seam or clean a house better than most guys? Most women can, but it ain't a given. Fitch, whom you've probably never heard of but many on this group respect, is a quilter.

Less *knowledgeable* about simple mechanical tasks. I don't equate 'qualified' with 'knowledge'. Perhaps you're indulging in a little sexism of your own?

Who cares? The *fact* is, more females than males are ignorant of basic simple mechanical stuff, and happy with it. I can't operate a sewing machine because I've never taken the time to learn, because I'm not interested. Same, I'd venture to say, applies to most men.

I know an expert (male) sailmaker.

One woman posted here implying she's an expert auto mechanic.

Tiny sample sizes.

What's the diff?

Anyone who wants to extrapolate what Jim said to some generic implied putdown of women needs to get a life and find something useful to do with their time.

PDW

Well, it wasn't me who made the "wives and daughters" remark, it was keyed in by Jim Stewart who was replying to the jumper cable analogy I made in reply to your saying "The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others."

Such are the vagaries of newsgroup message threading....

And though I used slang terms which in my days were generally understood to refer to males, "nebish" (A Yiddish term for a "loser".) and "guy", I can easily see myself saying the same thing about "wives and daughters" as Jim did. Well, maybe I would have said "wives and children" as I've both sons and daughters.

True, I retired into her business at about age 63 when my eyes got poor enough so I was having trouble even seeing the ever shrinking electronic components, let alone reading the markings (if any) on them. :-)

And, SWMBO will readily confess to being born without any technogenes at all, and could care less. She's had 40 years of education and experience helping people with disabilities, and built a much bigger business than I ever did, without ever having to learn what a Phillips head screw was. (If you questioned her on that subject she'd probably blush and assume you were asking her something "off color".)

But, it's a great way for me to keep my hands and what's left of my brain busy. There's all sorts of gym and playground type therapy apparatus I get to build and keep in shape, computers and a network wiring to learn about and use, and all the financal, legal and tax stuff that goes along with keeping a small ma and pa business afloat. (Plus I'm usually the only rooster in a flock of about 75 lovely ladies, and best of all ....... I get to sleep with the boss.)

Well, I did learn to use a treadle operated Singer about twenty years ago when I restored the one SWMBO's grandfather had made his living on as a tailor. But about all I sewed on it were some seat covers for the minibikes I was putting together for the sons and an armrest cover for one of our cars.

Jeff

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: (clip) (she) built a much bigger business than I ever did, without ever having to learn what a Phillips head screw was. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Q: What do you call the drink made by mixing vodka and milk of magnesia? A: Phillips screwdriver.

Not a Pile Driver?

The "by" part sounds like eggsackly what you *don't* want to have happen, which leads me believe that there'll be lots more "love children" running around thanks to those who depend on Saran wrap.

Or, to put it in lymeric form:

There was a young man of Cape Horn, Who wished that he'd never been born. And he wouldn't have been, If his father had seen, The Saran wrap he'd used was all torn.

Jeff

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:20:11 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

In those days, a really cheap (broke) kind.

She did.

You are a vile and twisted individual. Will you be my friend?

tschus pyotr

Do candles need to be kept dry to be viable? I would've thought that the wax would be unaffected by water.

R, Tom Q.