OT - garage slab and footing question

I have a 3-car garage that has a 2-car bay and a 1-car bay. There is a separate door for each bay and an expansion joint in the
slab separating them.
I'd like to build a wall between the 2 bays and turn the 1-car side into a shop with walls and ceiling. I'd also like to build a storage loft above the shop and that's where my problems start.
The city says that if there is a storage loft, the wall that I'm putting in becomes a load- bearing wall and must rest on a 6" footing rather than the 3" slab.
What I'd like to know is what is the easiest way to put in that footing. Should I hire a concrete saw guy to slice out a 6" strip of concrete? Would it be possible to use a circular saw with a diamond blade to do it myself? I would only need to make one cut as the expansion joint would form the other border.
Should there be any trouble with excavating the dirt, making forms, placing rebar and pouring the footing?
Thanks for all input.
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Concrete sawing is not a big deal and what you describe is straightforward. $4 per foot around here with a $250 minimum. Whether you can get away with a 6" strip and then undercutting it in the dirt, or need to saw out the full footing width, I don't know. Sure would be prettier to not to re-pour part of the slab.
If I was stuck with that, would strongly consider a loft that is not "structural" - anchor it to the walls but support it primarily from the floor, like a giant shelving unit.
If you're talking about raising the roof and making a full height room, that's different and what the inspector says is the true path.
Bob
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Do something silly and put your 6" footing on top of the slab, or dont tell them you want a loft just a flat roof

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wrote:

First of all..does the city have to know?
Secondly..what if you make it free standing?
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
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Gunner wrote:

That is the question. Brother in law lives in Cleveland. Built a 24 x 30 foot garage, not one permit, not a word from the city. May have a problem if there is a fire (insurance) or when he sells the house.
Your wall should be no problem.
However if I were you I would build the wall in accordance with code and put in a footer and not tell anyone.
Is that a 6" wide of 6" thick footer? 6" wide sounds a bit narrow.
I would rent a concrete/ pavement saw (the kind on a carriage) and cut at least a 18" wide slot. Digging it out would be no problem if you have the right tools (same as anything).
You may be farther ahead having a contractor do this for you. After saw rental, disposal of the concrete and dirt, getting gravel and mixing concrete (mixing sacks of concrete in a wheelbarrow gets old quick), and the possible need to buy tools you'll only use once, it may be worth it for you to hire out the footing.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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One problem with non-standard building - has to be fixed or the county forces a variance and taxes and normal mortgages may not buy in to the house.
The new owner may have to pay to fix at a later date also.
This is what I learned around here - many home jobs done undercover that the agents shudder when they hear the issue and warn the buyers (off).
Martin
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wrote:

LOL
Cut the garage floor with a skil saw ... :o) Rent one and cut it a foot wide , drop in the inspected rebar and pour it full of concrete 4500# per in. To hold up what over your shop?
The way they have codes , I wouldn't want to be under anything approved. Jack hammer out a couple of holes and dig down and set some steel pipes with junk welded to the under concrete part and an I beam. Weld with 45 degree cross members and it will be the last thing standing ! Fill them with concrete if your worried about it.
I've built a number of solar trackers and set them with durt, LIGHT mix of sand and cement, and concrete. They are a bitch to get out or move in any way.
I pity if they ever had a bad earth quake here. Bolting down boards and one to two nails to hold the house is just asking for trouble in my view. They just started putting on 45 degree straps on buildings and they still won't help . :o)
Its best not to ask and just over do it and say nothing, it was always there. I'd rather be in my shop than my house in any bad happening. I guess the machines could fall on me, but the building would still be there.

That's a good idea , like fork lift racks...

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This is his house, not some back yard fort. Building codes are there for a reason. Consider the devastation of a 6.5 quake in Iran and one in CA.
If you get a permit and comply with the building code then when it comes time to sell the buyer is not going to have a problem with insurance or finance companies.

The weight will still be supported by the 3 inch slab. Strong foundations are a good idea.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:58:27 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"

Yes, this is indeed his house. Not the cities. Or are you indicating that only the city can build an adequate structure?

And the permit and building code ensures that the engineering will be proper? Ive got a contractors license..you must have some interesting codes in your area. Mine are largely a joke.

Yes they are. Now about weight distribution....
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
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snipped-for-privacy@lightspeed.net says...

Ive got a contractors license..you must have some interesting

You have a *building* contractor's license? A current one?
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:53:21 -0600, Jim Kovar

Electrical. I put it on "inactive" when I took the machine tool repair job 8 yrs ago. Two more years and it goes out and Ill have to retake the test again if I dont activate it before then.
Way too many starving electrical contractors in my area. Shrug.
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
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We (midwest) have bilding, electrical, plumbing, and insulation codes that are for the most part reasonable and enforced. I've been tripped up a couple of times, went back and did some more calcs, said "OOPS", and redid it.
Gunner wrote:

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Interesting comments! Here in N VA, it is not uncommon for the sellers agent to pull the prior sales description and compare it with the current house. If there was an unfinished basement the last time, and now it is finished, they may check with the county about permits. Seems like it is a tie-in to property tax assessment. I've heard of it being done. Then the County Inspector will review it, check for permits, and if none exist make a house call to inspect the work. Work not visible? Gee owner, make it visible, or at least enough of it so a representative sample can be looked at. Better check procedures in your area before you do something outside the county/city's view. Gunner, it's got nothing to do with the quality or appropriateness of the codes, and I do agree some stretch credibility (like needing a permit to replace a garbage disposal - ha!). Just a few thoughts.

a
foundations
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AHS wrote:

I already checked.
In my city, the building inspector does a walkthrough before the sale can close. Any permit-required work that was done without a permit gets fined at 2x the original permit cost.
In reality, this in itself could be a bargain. Normally, when you get a permit signed off for an improvement, they forward the info to the county assessor and you see your property tax go up. It doesn't take many years of missing the property tax boost to pay back the fine.
My reasons for getting it permitted is so that I know it's safe and that I don't have any issues with my insurance company. Up to now, the city inspectors have been knowledgeable and easy to work with.
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wrote:

By all means do what you have to do. Out here I think they just want to use their legalized extortion. Many houses around me have been sold that have been doubled in size with no permits. One got poped , but they said ok cause he had a bunch of pictures. I'm thinking about redoing the carport ad-on that who ever did it didn't know what they where doing. No one said a word about it when I bought the house. I've got a bunch of 8"X16" beams that I know it will hold up better than what is there. If I call in the thugs I'll have to pay $4,000 for a rubber stamp from an engineer and pay them too. I'd love to move to the hill country in TX. you can do anything you want without worrying about that stuff. What is really funny is that the top thugs use un-licenced contractors to do their property cause they checked out who does the best work.
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It's much easier to put in 1 or 2 load bearing posts resting on what ever footing pad the inspector wants. 18" or 24" square is usually approriate. Use a doubled or tripled 2x whatever for a beam and hang the wall. Cut the slab with a masonary blade in a circular saw (diamond blade is nice, abrasive works). You only need to go 1/3 to 1/2 the way through the slab to get a nice cut, break out the underside.
Around here we do this except that the hole has to be 48" deep. Dig an 18" diameter hole, flat bottom, drop in an 8" sono tube form held 12" off the bottom, fill with concrete, back fill the dirt, finish off the concrete with a nice patch.
Jim Stewart wrote:

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Jim Stewart wrote:

I get the feeling that you think the footing only has to be 6" wide. The inspector means a footing 6" thick, probably 18" or so wide, and as deep as the frost line. But since it's an interior wall, maybe the footing doesn't have to be as deep. Ask about that.
Bob
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Jim Stewart wrote:

<snip :-) >

It seems to me that you are selecting the wrong side of the 2:1 bays :-) Martin [ wishing I had another bay to spread into ]
--
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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

A husband has got to know his limitations.
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Jim Stewart wrote:

That is what I have been saying for years. The car gets to part in the shop typically 1 day - before the moving van drives up. Then out into the 'cold'.
Until I got a Mill - the first thing off the truck was a Shop floor rug. :-)
Martin
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