OT: Keybord recommendation?

I've had it with wimpy keyboards. I really liked the original IBM PC keyboard, and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you get today just suck.

I currently have a SIIG mechanical keyboard, and while it's better, there's something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

Anyway, I figure that since this is rcm where there at least three opinions for every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions from you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

BTW, the recent trackball thread prompted me to send my old Microsoft Trackball Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbished. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Reply to
rangerssuck
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and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you get today just suck.

something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions from you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbished. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I like the Microsoft Natural 4000 keyboards. Big enough to club someone with. Though, nothing will likely ever compare to the venerable IBM 029 keypunch keyboard in terms of feel and quality.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Don't have a good answer for the keyboards, I use Dell kbds, but also have the caps lock problem many times a day.

As for the trackballs, I have to replace the left button switch every couple years, they wear out. I salvage usable microswitches from old mice.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

I must not use my Logitech optical trackball T-BB13 enough as it's about

12years old IIRC and the only thing I've ever done to it is clean out the crud inside when the ball start to not run so easily.
Reply to
David Billington

The trackball just came back (a couple of days early!). This guy:

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did a helluva job. The thing looks better than brand new and operates smoot h as silk.

I don't think that in this case, it is the actual switch that wears out. I think it's the plastic nub on the back of the button that gets squashed. He says that what he does is build it up with fiberglass. I really don't care HOW he does it, I only care THAT he does it. This is the best sixty bucks I've spent in a long time.

I'm thing that, for the keyboard, it ought to be pretty simple surgery to s wap the Caps Lock and Control keys to return things to the way nature inten ded. Maybe I can get to that in the next couple of days.

Reply to
rangerssuck

and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you get today just suck.

something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions from you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbished. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Though I haven't tried one, these are supposed to be the same as the IBM keyboards.

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I'm still nursing a couple Focus keyboards, which use the same clicky switches as the Northgates.

Reply to
Ned Simmons

Yes -- the NorthGate was a nice keyboard. It even had s switch to select between the PC and the XT interface behavior, and another to exchange the Caps-Lock and Control keys. (As a unix user, I prefer the Control key to be to the left of the A, and the Caps Lock to be out of the way, or even not present at all, as I never intentionally use it.

However, my NorthGate got smoke damage during a fire in the shop, and it still has just the old PC DIN keyboard connector and a step-down cable to the Mini-DIN used on later PC. And these days, most of my computers have gone to USB interface.

Where is your Caps-Lock located? The PC standard to the left of the 'A' key, or the unix standard, which puts the Control key there, and puts the Caps-Lock to the left of the spacebar, (diamond) and ALT keys.

Really -- my favorite currently, is the Sun Type-6 with the USB interface. (They were also made with the Mini-DIN for the standard SUN connector -- totally incompatible with the PC's Mini-DIN -- and even a different number of pins so you can't accidentally plug it in there.

FWIW It even works well with a Mac Mini. The Sun Diamond "" key sends out the same code as the Mac "flower/clover" key or the PC's Windows key.

It has plenty of function keys -- F1 through F along the top, and another ten a the left which used to be marked "L-1" through "L-10", but now have text labels. Obviously, the Mac Mini has no idea what to do with those extra left-hand keys, and I think that a Windows box is as likely to ignore them -- but they work fine in an Intel based machine running pretty much any flavor of unix.

Is that three options from me? NorthGate, Sun keyboard, and LogiTech TrackMan trackball. :-)

I tend to use the LogiTech TrackMan on all my systems. Better than a mouse when I type from a Lay-Z-Boy or the like. It does not have to move around, and I stick a Velcro pad on the right arm. In my sofa, the Velcro sticks to a coarse upholstered bolster without any preparation. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you get today just suck.

something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

for every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions from you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

Trackball Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbished. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I've gotten great keyboards from "Electronics Goldmine" and they get a beating and feel and work good. I only saw these there now but they get new stuff every day.

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Reply to
Tom Gardner

I have a Mac, and have no issue with their stock keyboards.

However I know there are many people who go nuts for those older 'buckling spring' keyboards...

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Be sure to look through the links at the end of the article... Also Google 'bucking spring keyboard' and variations.

This is probably common knowledge, but in the Mac keyboard prefs is a button labeled 'Modifier Keys' that allows turning off, and/or swapping functions of the command, option, control and caps lock keys. I have almost zero Windowz experience, but would assume they also provide like flexibility. (I've had my caps lock shut off for years now, and've never looked back)

Here's some more keyboard stuff I came across while looking up the above link

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Hope it helps, good luck in your search!

Erik

Reply to
Erik
[ ... ]

[ ... ]

I very occasionally have to take it apart and clean the lint out of the barcode encoder inside the scroll wheel in the middle button. This is on the TrackMan, FWIW. And we have two cats indoors, so they generate more lint than would otherwise be likely.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

oard, and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you ge t today just suck.

's something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

ns for every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions fr om you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

ckball Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbishe d. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns ou t.

Have a pile of Dells I bought for a buck@ from a recycler. I really like the old clicky keyboards, but they have the full-size DIN plug and nothing uses those anymore. Adapters just stick the thing out where they'd get snagged and busted. The Dells are Good Enough, not the greatest. Microcenter still has the clicky sort, but at $80+, they'll sit on the shelves. I remember the list on Zenith keyboards was like $125 back in the '80s, those weighed a ton, had the clicky switches and a solid steel baseplate. A guy could get seriously hurt if one fell on him from a storage shelf. All US-made, had Cherry switches, there's a reason they had a high price. Later on, we got a whole pallet load for $5@, cheaper to replace them than to clean off the black crap from ones that lived in the shops at the shipyard. Some got so dirty you couldn't make out the letters on the keys.

Have several Kensington trackballs, oldest has stainless steel roller bearings and uses a cue ball. That one several operating systems don't like, must be just slightly different from a MS mouse when queried at startup. Latest one has no moving parts except the ball, have to defur the optical sensor pit periodically at the bottom, just goes dead if there's a hairball in there. Had to do the same with the old Kensington, there, the encoder shafts got wound up with fuzz, had to use tweezers to get the stuff out. But it had been in use at least

15 years... I also use the Logitech Marble Mouse, takes a licking and keeps on ticking, a pretty good buy for the money. Gets bounced on the floor once in awhile, still works.

Stan

Reply to
Stanley Schaefer

keyboard, and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you get today just suck.

something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

for every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions from you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

Trackball Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbished. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Haven't you ever seen the short afapter cables?

The early Zenith keybaords used a different timing than the AT keyboards and were flakey on real PC compatibles.

I have no problem cleaning dirty keyboards. I had piles of them out of a Lockheed marin machine shop that were completly black. A few minutes with a spray bottle of household ammonia had mud running off them, leaving new looking keyboards behind. Just remeber to stand them on their end, and use a fine most of Ammonia.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Hmmm... I think I'd avoid the ammonia... copper & copper alloys don't get along chemically with even small amounts of ammonia.

For example:

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Have heard of people pulling the caps off, soaking in soapy water & scrubbing. Think some keyboards require a special tool to pull the caps (and with others they can't be practically removed at all). I would certainly take a photo of it first to insure correct reassembly.

Erik

Reply to
Erik

if you do it right, nothing gets inside. i've done hudreds of keyboards that way, and never had a problem. You only use enough to soften the crud, then rinse with distilled or filtered water. I've been cleaning keyboards that way since the mid '80s.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Depending on how well protected the works are. With the Sun keyboards (I've taken them apart to get out years of accumulated cat hair) the electronics are fairly well protected.

The Sun keyboards -- while there are special tools for lifting off keycaps, can easily be decapped with two small screwdrivers working on one cap at a time from either side.

Be careful with the longer ones (Shift, Return, Enter and '+' on the keypad, ane especially the spacebar), as they typically have a wire bail pivoting in guides down on the bottom and attaching to the two ends of the keycap so an off center push won't simply tilt the keycap and not press far enough for the switch to work. You want to look at them as you take the keycap off (take off adjacent normal sized ones first, so you have a good view) so you know how they go back together.

I swapped the 'F' and 'J' keycaps from an earlier Sun keyboard because they have better tactile nubs to identify the index finger positions for the home keys, and they are also lighter, making it easier to visually identify them as well.

But the worst problem with mine was the cat hair, which eventually got between the two flexible printed circuit boards preventing some contacts from closing until you pressed about as hard as an ASR-33 Teletype key normally required (picture balancing a broom, handle down, on the keycap and it *might* send a character. :-) I had to take it fully apart, and take the two flexible boards and the swiss-cheese separator down to the shop and use the air compressor hose to send the hair somewhere else. The static charge really wanted to keep those hairs where they made problems. :-) But once that was done, I got several more years of use out of the keyboard in question -- though it is time to do this again, I think.

But mostly, the cat hair just builds up around the key shafts and cushions the keycap at the bottom of the stroke.

BTW On these, the "spring" is a tiny rubber "falsie", which snaps just like the buckling springs do -- and keeps the moisture out of the works.

As for taking a photo -- if you don't have extra copies of the keyboard around for comparison, yes -- or Xerox it. I've done both.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

Ive had rather good luck putting them in the dishwasher on Cold setting. Then stand them up and let them dry for a few days.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

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  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

What I am using (on a Mac) is a buckling-spring keyboard from Unicomp. It works quite well. Unicomp bought the rights to and manufacturing data for the IBM keyboards.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

oard, and, later, the Northgate keyboards. The cheapy, spongy things you ge t today just suck.

's something about it that causes me to make a lot of typos. Particularly, I hit the caps lock by mistake a lot.

ns for every two posters, there ought to be some pretty good suggestions fr om you folks. So what keyboards to you swear by (or swear at)?

ckball Explorer (why did they ever stop making those?) out to be refurbishe d. It should be back in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns ou t.

Thanks to all who replied, publicly and privately. I looked at all the sugg ested keyboards and realized that I like the action on my current Siig keyb oard (purchased at Microcenter), but it's the damned caps lock key that kee ps getting in the way.

What I realized from looking at pictures of the keyboards you recommended i s that this could be solved by lowering the surface of the rightmost portio n of the caps lock key to the point where it wouldn't be hit by mistake. So I carried it to an extreme, and just pulled of the keycap entirely. It's b een several days, and I haven't had a problem, nor have I missed that key. Someday, I may just saw off the right-hand 25% or so, but in all honesty, I can't remember the last time I used the caps lock for anything useful.

So, I'm thiking that I'll file this under "problem solved."

The trackball, after I was so happy to get it back, started to act up. The "left" button (actually the lower left, which is, by default, used to make a left-click)started to either not react at all - even though I heard it cl ick - or to bounce so badly as to cause unintentional double-clicks. I trie d swapping (in software) the left & right buttons, but that was just too ha rd to get used to. So, I contacted the guy who did the work, and I offered to do the labor if he would just send me the switch. He said that it's tric ky to get the thing apart without breaking something, and that he would pre fer that I send it to him. So, it's back on it's way to North Carolina.

Reply to
rangerssuck

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