OT: R134a Conversion

Off topic but since this group has an enormous experience depository on tap I figured I'd ask it here. I've got a 86 Pontiac Sunbird that has been sitting for a couple of years and while in the process of getting it road worthy again, was getting 30+ mpg and what with gas over 2 bucks a gal..., I noticed that the AC is not working. This weekend I'm going to get any r12 recovered and the system vacuum checked but I have a question. If the system doesn't show signs of a leak, meaning the r12 leaked out through the hoses I'm considering just refilling it and going from there, but, if I find a leak in something like a hose or condenser I'm considering doing a refit to r34a since I'll be replaceing parts anyway. I've seen all kinds of info saying 'dont do it' or 'it worked fine for me' and 'aint as cold anymore' but I still am sitting on the fence. One of the main reasons for switching was price but since r134 has goon through the roof at present, price isn't a consideration right now. I did consider that if I switched to r134 then future problems could be dealt with in the driveway instead of having to drive to my brothers shop to fix and recharge and if I had a slow leak I might get away with just putting a 'hotshot' can in once a year or so to top off. I know I can get the 609 license for r12 for about 20 bucks online but still not sure if I could get the smaller bottles of r12 anymore even with that. I looked at the retrofit kits in the stores and it looks rather simple and I also looked at the info in the Mitchell Auto repair software and it had a tech bulletin indicating that the original hoses and o-rings were compatable with the r134. I'm thinking that a flush of the evaporator, condensor and pump to get rid of the mineral oil and then pull a vacuum for 30 to 40 minutes to flush out and moisture and refill with r134 shouldn't be too hard. Anyone out there done any of these conversions? Any suggestions??

Bill

Reply to
Bill
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Bill wrote: I know I can get the 609 license for r12 for about 20 bucks online but

Yes, there is a Motor Vehicle Air Cond. tech card, and with it, you can buy 12 Oz cans of R-12, or just about anything else used in cars, from the local auto parts store.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Reply to
Bill

There is plenty of R12 in cans on ebay.

Randy

Reply to
R. O'Brian

My suggestion is to forget about the 134 and put Freeze 12 in it. It's cheaper and cools at least as good as R12 if not better.

Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX

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Reply to
Wayne Cook

I suggest you refill with R12 if you can get it. You know R12 works, the system was designed around it. All stories about conversions are anecdotal, your experience may vary. Charge it with R12 and get on with your life.

Email me offline.

- - Rex Burkheimer WM Automotive Fort Worth TX

Bill wrote:

Reply to
Rex B

What is freeze 12 ?

Reply to
Chuck Sherwood

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Reply to
Just Me

I read about it. Still don't understand it, but it appears to be a mixture of two chemicals.

chuck

Reply to
Chuck Sherwood

The problem with 134 is that it leaks out a lot faster than 12 and also is not as good a cooler which means that you need to change the nozzle in the evaporator. I'd rather use one of the R12 clones than convert to R134.

-- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

Reply to
Bob May

I've converted 2, an 87 Astrovan (converted about '94), and a 90 Camry (converted about '00). Both were easy, and both are still working well. Get *factory* conversion instructions if you can, they will have model-specific advice about exactly what needs changing and how to do it.

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

Bill wrote: I'm thinking that a flush of the

That's pretty much what I did on my 90 Voyager. Flushed the evap, condenser and any unrestricted hoses twice with paint thinner then once with flush from

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(smelled like turpentine). Blow out the lines with compressed air between each flush. Pulled the compressor and ran some new ester oil though it by turning the pulley. Switched up all the gaskets and orings with a kit from NAPA. Replaced the drier. Distributed the required amount of ester oil between the drier, evap, condenser and compressor. Pulled a vacuum for an hour then recharged. Voyagers use a r-12 specific compressor and I was getting vent temps of

54 degrees, which is good enough for me. If you have a orifice tube you are also going to have to change that out to a 134a specific one.

Nate

Reply to
Nate Weber

I've not been able to find out exactly what is in it. But I do know that it works. I've put it in a lot of tractors which are hard to cool and often don't respond well to 134 conversion.

Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX

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Reply to
Wayne Cook

Ok I am ready for the flames to begin.....

I do this for a living.. I have my certificate to buy R-12. R-12 systems work better w/R-12 R-12 is coming down in price...my last 30lb cyl. of R-12 was $449.00..My last 30lb cyl. of R-134a was $329.00 Last year I paid over $1200 for the same cyl. of R-12 If you imagine R-12 molecules and R134a molecules as round balls, then say a R-12 molecule is the size of a basketball, then a R-134a molecule would be the size of a baseball. Using the above analogy indicates that if you have a leak now with R-12 then you will have a much faster leak w/R-134a Having said all of the above, I retro-fit w/ major component replacement. If the system is just low and needs some juice, then I recharge and add dye to help locate leaks later. If it needs a major component( compressor, evaporator, condenser) I also charge the accumulator flush the system, and convert to R-134a. If I have consulted w/ customer and given them all options. If you convert the accumulator needs to be charged because the one on the vehicle is not compatible W/ R-134a.

EPA mandates that I must have a recovery machine for each refrigerant that I work with, therefore I only use R-12 and R-134a in my repairs. If you come to me with you repair and have something else in your system I have to send you away, because I can't recover what is in your system. The fine if I am caught can be up $10,000 per offense if I let it out into the atmosphere.

One last plea, please do not use sealer that is being sold on the market, it doesn't work well and will ruin a technicians recover machine if he sucks it out of your vehicle during a repair.

Reply to
Joseph Crabtree

accumalator needs to be changed.......I typed in wrong word but spelled correctly....for some reason my checker doesn't catch me when I am being stupid.

Joe

Reply to
Joseph Crabtree

It's normal for A/C systems to bleed off over time-doesn't necessarily mean a critical leak. If it will hold 29" for 30 minutes, it's OK. I have retrofitted the following cars to R134A, all without replacing any parts,seals, etc. Or oil flushing. Just a 1 hr vac pull and recharge. All working very well after 2 years.

1 1970 Ford F250 factory a/c 2 1884 VW Jetta 3 1985 Audi 5000 4 1981 Toyota Cor> Off topic but since this group has an enormous experience depository on tap
Reply to
JR North

Cripes! What happened? This stuff was less than a third of that when I bought it in 2002. Some kinda government tax? Even R-22 is $3/lb and that's a so-called ozone depleter under tax/quota.

About 1990 I stockpiled enough R-12 for my own lifetime needs, when it was legal, against the day it wouldn't be. Later I wished I had bought a warehouse full. I coulda retired on the windfall profits.

I didn't do that for R-134a, thinking it would be forever cheap and legal.

I am gonna buy a warehouse full of the next refrigerant that the government inflicts upon us, when it is new and cheap.

Reply to
Richard J Kinch

Yes, it says "MVAC Technician Certification EPA Clean Air Section 609" on the card.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Reply to
JR North

Reply to
RoyJ

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