OT: Shop break-ins

If you could get them redirected to the doors or windows and not walls, many gun shops use a pepper spray bomb that goes off when intruders enter. I think a company in PA has a system. They advertise in the gun mags. No worries about them hanging around--takes about 8 hours to dissipate.

Reply to
Rick Cabral
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String up a few small diameter aircraft cables or baling wires in a few strategic places.

Reply to
SteveB

"Clark Magnuson" wrote

Really? Than how do you account for Middle East countries, who teach creation, to the US where they teach evolution?

Reply to
Daven Thrice

Has it occurred to you they might have eaten the cat's food ?

Hence the dump.

Clearly you were broken into by hungry bums who wanted to do some metalwork.

Reply to
Scott Moore

Do you think they would steal a nice looking electric drill? It doesn't even need a motor, but A couple of sticks 0f 60% and an electric cap will do the job. Read who stole it in the newspaper. Blame it on Osama.

Reply to
Nick Hull

You can get electronic ear muff so you can hear normally (or even amplified) but the gunshot is muffled.

Reply to
Nick Hull

I can confirm this method works. I used a surplus air raid siren instead of a whistle, but the effects were the same. Even with ear protectors on, it was painful to stay in the shop for more than a few seconds. Without ear protectors, I guarantee you the perps won't be carrying anything out of the shop, they'll have both hands over their ears as they stumble out.

Gary

Reply to
Gary Coffman

Yet another reason why I love this newsgroup.

:^)

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

At my age, I'm probably as good as I'm likely to get so training would be a waste. I can punch a phonebook to fit a 3-ring binder but I've never shot a person and I just didn't get into hunting very much. I really wonder if the skills associated with punching paper for 30+ years are transferable to punching holes in people. My gut says: "Don't get into that situation, hire a gunman." I've never fired a gun without muffs, isn't it funny that that's what I would be thinking about while stalking around in my factory at

5:00 AM? I'd already figured out shot placement and how to dispose of the bodies

Reply to
Tom Gardner

On 13 Sep 2004 20:53:59 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Rick Cabral) calmly ranted:

Pepper spray doesn't just go away. Do you promise to go to his shop and clean up the hot-sauce mess that it created each time? Pepper spray bomb = Dumb idea = employee lawsuits when they get the residue which settled out of the air into their eyes/onto their skin. And what happens the first time those wire brushes are spun-up by the unsuspecting customers? That system must have been dreamed up by a very, very hungry lawyer and he probably sold it for a profit and is making an extra couple mil a year by its implementation.

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

Punching paper is one set of skills, holes in people are another. Related, sure, but locating holes at will on a paper target, doesn't translate to identifying a moving target across the room, in twilight or near darkness, and killing him/her before they can get their piece out- or not killing them if all they did is jump in suprise- all in the space of maybe 5 seconds. "Freeze & put your hands up" makes for fun movies, but you're likely to become a statistic if you try it without being trained in such things. Suppose you shot & missed because you weren't ready, they get out their gun and you start firing at each other from behind various pieces of your own equipment- now thats a great situation to be in. And heaven help the poor SOB who was walking past in the street & gets hit with a stray slug.

By training, I meant tactical training so you can put your marksmanship to use without maximizing risk to yourself.

Gregm

Reply to
Greg Menke

Are you sure you want to kill someone for stealing some cat food?

After talking to some folks here who've had similar problems, it may be that ADT did sense the intruders, and called the cops who did not respond. If the local cops don't respond in a timely manner, there is no response mechanism so the alarm system is essentially worthless.

The folks here set up a neighborhood mutual protective association, putting each other on their diallers. Alarms get investigated. The last breakin before this system was adopted looked like kids, as does yours. Dumb stuff was taken, nothing of real value -- and nothing on top shelves! The guys here don't respond with guns because it's the UK.

If your cops don't respond to alarms, then your first idea might be right: hire someone to monitor your alarm that will actually respond to alarms. If you think they need to be armed, so be it. Hopefully they'll know how to carry arms for use as necessary without shooting any unarmed kids. As others have mentioned, lout noise may also work -- at least until would-be intruders discover that the noise doesn't elicit any further response or threat. Then finding and neutralizing the noisemaker may actually become part of the challenge and excitement.

You might ask ADT about that. Did they get an alarm? If so, when? What time? What did they do about it? Why might they think you do not have a refund coming for value paid for but not received? If you must be or hire your own response force, why are you sending money to ADT?

Reply to
Don Foreman

As others have said..it appears that you have homeless..or crack addicts making themselves at home. This tends to become a trend unfortunately and sooner or later they will destroy something valuable.

As to the shooting thing..trust me on this..you will likely not recall hearing the shots you fire, when in a self defense situation. You may recall later feeling the muzzle blasts..but..

When the little guy in your back brain hits the Adrenaline SCRAM button..all such minor distractions tend to get filtered out.

If you do NOT feel comfortable doing room sweeps..do NOT do them. Its a situation few much care for as the fear factor and the anticipation factor get your blood pressure really raised up.

And the moment you get blase about it..is when Bad Shit happens.

Hitting the paper on the range is easy. When suddenly you are confronted with Bad Shit..the issue becomes more problematic..particularly with that huge adrenaline hit you are about to take.

If you ever make it out to California..Ill run you though a live fire course that will help you a bit.

But if you ever feel the need to do a building sweep, Id be happy to email you with some details that might keep you and the bad guys alive. Its not rocket science mostly..just common sense stuff.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Reply to
Gunner

||Are you sure you want to kill someone for stealing some cat food?

I'd kill someone for taking a dump on my shop floor!

||others have mentioned, lout noise may also work -- at least until would-be ||intruders discover that the noise doesn't elicit any further response or ||threat. Then finding and neutralizing the noisemaker may actually become ||part of the challenge and excitement.

Needs to be loud enough to get the neighbors out of bed. Mine is.

Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

||But if you ever feel the need to do a building sweep, Id be happy to ||email you with some details that might keep you and the bad guys ||alive. Its not rocket science mostly..just common sense stuff.

I'd be interested in that information, for similar reasons.

take the extra @ out of my email to reply

Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

Well, if it's crack heads, just hide your valuables beneath a pile of books--they'll be safe.

Reply to
B.B.

After six attempted sales pitches, ADT gave up on me when I offered to demonstrate my "staffordshire alarm system" and my "winchester anti-theft system". In fact, the city officer informed me that the young lady was looking for laundry type help, he suggested that with posting of a "no soliciting" sign, I would be justified in offering physical assistance as far as the property line. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

Reply to
Clark Magnuson

First step - Fire ADT. Now. Their service is obviously crap (or they would have easily detected someone roaming free inside the shop) and they are always overpriced - they sucker you in with "Free Basic System Installation!" but TANSTAAFL. They make it back (and then some, by charging double for the monitoring fees. And after the contract is up (meaning they should have made their money back on the equipment) they won't drop the monitoring rates.

You will have to replace the alarm panel and keypads (even though you've paid for it five times over), as ADT buys proprietary equipment that can't be programmed without special expensive software and the secret unlock codes...

Which is fine, because there is much better equipment on the open market - with digital panels you can now have enough zones that every single sensor can have it's own assigned zone code. The monitoring station can tell the Cops (or armed response) exactly where the guy is in the building, almost in real-time, by telling them which doors, pressure pads (under the carpet in the halls, invisible and quite effective) and motion sensors are tripping. If there are concurrent sensor trips from different locations, they can even figure out a body count. These details make the local cops happy, because then they know it isn't a false alarm.

And local alarm companies tend to have a much lower ratio of brain-dead zombies to smart employees on their payrolls, they can't afford slackers. ADT has huge National Monitoring Centers - meaning customer service will suck at best. And I've BT,DT with them.

If you have a DSL or T-1 line, you can even set up a web-server linked to surveillance cameras, and they can watch the bad guys moving around from the central station (or you can from home) in real-time.

Have the new system set up for Supervised Entry and Exit - your system calls the central station every time so that their monitoring computer can log when and who armed or disarmed the system, by different assigned alarm codes per employee. You can have standing orders that only certain key people are allowed to be in the building on weekends or holidays, anything else gets treated as a break-in.

This will stop any possibility of it being an "inside job" - this break-in could have easily been a current or former employee who knew the code, knew how to get inside through the wall and to a control panel without tripping any sensors, shut off the alarm, had his fun, and then set the alarm again as he left the same way...

There's no way IMHO they could have gone out in the shop and run some of the equipment without tripping at least one motion sensor - either they disarmed the system, there were too few sensors for the size building being covered, or the ADT installer was a moron choosing locations for the existing sensors. But I'd need to see a floorplan marked with motion sensor locations to see if it's possible.

The big downside of Supervised Entry is the phone bill for all those measured rate calls to the central station, but them's the breaks.

Insurance companies tend to give you big premium breaks for more complete alarm systems, call and ask them what they are. The new system with supervised entry and a bunch of fire detectors could get you a quick payback through healthy premium cuts.

(And insurers love Supervised Entry because they've caught more than one building owner entering the building and disabling the smoke detectors before setting their "Going Out Of Business" arson fire.)

Now that's just wrong - what are the poor shop kitties going to eat? Get a rope and hang 'em high... ;-)

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Needs to be loud enough that it is too painful to stay in the area and try to disable it. There may not be any close neighbors in an industrial or agricultural area at night, so it'll be best if it is loud enough to be heard at the Sheriff's station 20 miles away. But don't count on a timely response by law enforcement, count on making the immediate area *immediately* untenable by people without significant protective equipment.

Gary

Reply to
Gary Coffman

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