On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:58:47 GMT, the opaque Gunner spake:
Right. We don't want her dangly things making noise out in the bush, now do we?
- DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
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Or snagging on things.
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown
Specious analogy. There was (allegedly) a plan for the invasion of Iraq - it was not an accident. A better analogy would be shopping for insurance to cover a forseeable risk some months in the future.
Ned Simmons
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed someone to cover it. Where the usual protocol is to invite bids, evaluate the bids, award the bids based on $ and expectations that they winning bidder would be able to live up to the contract, implement the contract, evaluate results. In this case, there was only one bidder able to do the job in the timeframe available, so we had to go with what we had, even with the inevitable political baggage. As for the close relationship over time between our country's leaders and one of the most successful companies in the world, all I can tell you is that winners tend to associate with winners, less so with losers.
Care to take a wack at which companies could do the job?
Please be specific.
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading us and was determined to invade while pretending to be diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
Oh yeah...
You want mine? You're welcome to it. Like the poster says - come and get it.
(Proudly numbering myself amongst the mentioned 80M. Even though the artillery isn't quite so... Ermm... Well, "Militaristic" in appearance, the attitude and the aim DEFINITELY is. We'll be waiting for you...)
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:01:34 GMT, the opaque Gunner spake:
Ever since listening to Dodger describe how to survive a LRRP mission on an episode of China Beach twenty odd years ago, I have been aware of the need to quiet ALL the rattles on a commando's gear. I watch the SWAT teams, cops, and soldiers in movies go into battle, making enough noise TO KEEP THE WOLVES AWAKE, and wonder why nobody ever told them why they got picked off so often. Why haven't the writers and producers ever grokked that?
- DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
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On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide Halliburtons services btw..
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown
He also said, "The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy." The Treaty of Tripoli, which was
written during Washington's administration and signed by John Adams, said the following in Article 11, "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
I think you are contradicting yourself here when one of your quotes speaks of the "general prevalence of deism" and the other tries to imply the founding fathers were all/mostly Christians.
Benjamin Franklin wrote the following in his autobiography:
"Scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself."
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
Does this mean that they were all/mostly deists? No, but it certainly shows that at least one of our founding fathers very definitely *was* a deist.
-- Fred
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion on something I haven't claimed to know anything about. Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
The key word is MAYBE. Yes, they are big and might be the best able to do the job but there was never opportunity to find out if that is true. Also there was never opportunity to find out if the settled price was fair open-market pricing.
For many of the functions that Halliburton performs, it was a little like going to Boeing and asking for a special spring..yea, Boeing can do it but there are also 1000 other companies that could have done that same spring better, cheaper and faster. A prime example of this in the Halliburton contract is the catering, laundry and similar functions. There are comanies in place that could have done this better but were not given the opportunity as it was rolled into a larger contract.
The list Gunner asks about? Try any number of food service people who already contract to feed the large bases (H.E. Butt in TX for example), same with laundry services *IF* the contract wasn't intentionally rolled into a massive package. Do you contract with your grocery store to supply all your machining needs simply because it's easier to let them worry about/ they're big enough to know where to get it? Of course not, that would be stupid..you'd pay far too much and be far too limitied by that system.
We'll never know if Halliburton was or was not the best choice as even when the "emergency" passed and it could have gone out to proper bidding, they just renewed the contract.
Koz
Thats pretty much up to you sir.
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown
Are you also claiming that a Bush were the reson the Clintons used Halliburton in Bosnia?
Seems others here are avoiding that particular issue....
And of course, you all are aware that it was not a New contract, but an expansion of an existing one, are you not?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown
I meant a combat sling. Probly shoulda been more specific..
Well--maybe Schlumberger _could_have. (BSEG)
Ed R. (tounge glued to cheek)
Nope, the only thing I claim is that in the rush to get something done, the path taken in awarding no-bid, single source contracts may not be the best either in value or in result. Halliburton is BIG and in haste, may have been the ones ready to dive in. However, at the very least, some portions of those contracts should have been scrutinized by this point and other bidders should be involved by now, simply to keep things honest. The other problem is that much of what Halliburton was able to do because they were considered "big" was supplied by the gov (took over existing operations). Even smaller bidders may have been able to get their fingers in as simply taking over something already situated doesn't require massive mobilization.
It also seems that some of the soldiers in support positions are getting very disgruntled because the civvy doing the same job as they are is making 2-300K a year for it. The haste to give the appearence of getting stuff done appears to be a very poor value at this point.
When your house floods, you pay whatever you need to stabilize the situation...THEN you go looking for bids/value in the actual rebuilding. It's long past time to be checking out contractors instead of having the stabilization team charge premium rates for simple things.
Koz
Lots of those guys make real money in the outside world as IT pros, pilots and so forth. So this is not particularly unusual, nor has it been for many many years.
I wonder what the learning curve will be, again and again as the various contractors come and go with their contracts.
Can we afford that sort of time?
Also, Im reminded of the numbers of Halliburton people who have been killed to date. I wonder if Joe's Transport Co. will figure that into the bid?
But you are correct. Perhaps it is time to put things out for bid. Now how long again is the bidding process for government services that normally go out to bid?
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:29:40 GMT, the opaque Gunner spake:
-snip-
This just in:
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