OT: What constitutes a "High Crime or Misdemeanor"?



That's right. Nixon stepped down because that means he received full benefits for life. If he was impeached, his gravy train went away.
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says...

Is that what you want in your government? That they simply never get *charged* when they shit on the bill of rights? How pathetic.
And why is it when the republicans get caught breaking the law, they say "you haven't charged me" and then when they're chareged, they cry out "that's not fair, besides I haven't been convicted" and when they finally are convicted they say "oh, boo hoo hoo, how unfair, look what clinton did."
All the way to jail.
Come back and revisit this issue in a year or so. In the meantime, stand by for Mr. Abromoff's testimony once his deal is brokered.
You'll hear some mighty boo-hooing shortly thereafter.
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jim rozen wrote:

The real crack up is the support for such behavior as spitting on the bill of rghts is something like "we need the President to have this power to keep Americans safe"...and the sheeples buy it. The same argument would apply if they put you in a guarded cell for your own "safety". Hey, they know what's best to protect you.
sooo..the next weasel out of that is "well, I trust them not to go that far". Yea, right. If you could trust to that extent, we wouldn't need to have put a bill of rights in the Constitution at all, would we. Hell, throw it all out becasue we can trust the politicians to have our best interest and safety in mind.
It seems that those who were screaming about constitutional protections the loudest are also the ones who are first to piss on it.
Koz
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Have you noticed that the real Second Amendment sheeples like Gunner who usually kowtow to what ever the Shrub says haven't chimed in on this? I think they are beginning to realize that if you can thumb your nose at the Fourth you can do the same for the Second. It is only a small step in the "War on Terrorism" to seize all guns and potentially explosive materials to protect us from ourselves. After all, Oklahoma City was home grown terrorists. I repeat: Where is the limit???
Flipovitch just hasn't figure that out yet.
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Glenn Ashmore

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You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
2005 21:55:27 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    Sweetums, we recognize the difference between a Constitution which is the law of the land, and a Constitution which is a Living Breathing Document.

    Yeah, that's what Bubba wanted to believe. Much more convenient to believe that McVeigh pulled the operation together entirely on his own.
    Of course, there is evidence that it was as much of an Al Qaeda operation as not. But nobody wants to face the implications of that involvement. Not even after a suicide bomber blows himself up outside a Oklahoma college football game.

    I have. I haven't seen any reason to be overly concerned. At least no more than I have over the last thirty years.
    It is funnier than a crutch watching Democrats and liberals sudden hysterical over the idea of a national ID card, when they were so ecstatic over the idea of a Universal Medical Care card just a few short years ago.
fnord, they want to be kept safe, as long as it doesn't inconvenience them.
-- pyotr filipivich Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level." LTC Grossman.
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You sir are a nut case.
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Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
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wrote:

You sir, know nothing about it. I strongly suggest you dig a little deeper than the first 30 pages of ARRP magazine.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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What about all the folks that screamed about potential abridgement of the 2nd amendment during the debate on the Brady bill? I don't see those folks standing up for the 4th amendment, now.
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a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
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Since you asked;
The WHITE HOUSE COMMISSION ON AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY study (1997) [1] called for locking cockpit doors, amongst other things, and if implemented would have forced the 9-1 hijackers to do something else. It was not implemented due to heavy industry lobbying in the Clinton era. Bush did nothing with it, either.
The Hart Rudman Commission Report [2] delivered at the end of the Clinton term to the Bush administration called for reorganization of intelligence agencies and Bush was told about it when he took office. He stonedwalled it and it has been implemented after 9-11 over his objections.
Either of these, if implemented, might have prevented the hijackings on 9-11.
The FAA had 52 reports of hijackers intentions in the spring and summer of 2001. For some reason the FAA and the Bush administration did nothing with the information.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1340282/posts
I've got more citations like this if you want them.
Citations;
[1] http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/212fin~1.html
WHITE HOUSE COMMISSION ON AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY
FINAL REPORT TO PRESIDENT CLINTON
VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE, CHAIRMAN
FEBRUARY 12, 1997
Washington, DC
Dear Mr. President,
We are pleased to present you with the report of the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security. You established this Commission by issuing Executive Order 13015 on August 22, 1996 with a charter to study matters involving aviation safety and security, including air traffic control and to develop a strategy to improve aviation safety and security, both domestically and internationally.
...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- [2] U.S. Commission on National Security/21st Century aka Hart-Rudman Commission aka Hart-Rudman Task Force on Homeland Security
Offical PDF http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/nssg.pdf http://www.milnet.com/hart-rudman /
[3] http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1340282/posts
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a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
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No, we want him impeached for deliberately violating the fourth amendment. In this particular case, at least.
Basically al queda has won if we, as a nation, have dismantled our bill of rights in response to their actions.
Jim
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You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
Dec 2005 18:02:41 -0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    What's a real crack up is that the same proponents of a Living Constitution, all of a sudden are Strict Originalists, when suddenly they discover that "sauce goose, sauce gander" is not an old cooking cliche. -- pyotr filipivich Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
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says...

Oddly there never has been much fuss about politically protected speech. There isn't much interpretation along the 'living constitution' folks that's been needed.
Basically from 1776 onward, if it's political speech, it's protected by the first amendment.
Besides, it sounds to me like almost everyone on this board is a strict constructionalist anyway. Except maybe the gun folks, when it doesn't suit their needs, that is.
Granted there are some who would say that we should give the federal government unfettered power to control the press, and likewise give them uncontrolled power to execute seaches without warrants. I cannot say what motivates them but anyone who says "let the govenment take care of it, we trust them completely" is doomed to disapointment.
At best.
What I cannot tolerate though is the argument that some need for temporary expedience requires us as citizens to abandon the bill of rights.
Jim
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wrote:

Like these?
We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans...
When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly ... [Now] there's a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it.
If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees.
You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say.
There is no reason for anyone in this country- anyone except a police officer or military person- to buy, to own, to have, to use a handgun. The only way to control handgun use in this country is to prohibit the guns.
The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people.
I think the definition [of an impeachable offense] should include any criminal acts, plus a willful failure of the President to fulfill his duty to uphold and execute the laws of the United States. The third factor that I think constitutes an impeachable offense would be willful, reckless behavior in office, just totally incompetent conduct in the office and the disregard of the necessities that the office demands.
"If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people he should resign." -
"It depends on what the meaning of the word is is. If the...if he...if is means is and never has been, that is not - that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement"
The above quote are from Bill Clinton.
A few more to mull over.....
A lot of presidential memoirs, they say, are dull and self-serving. I hope mine is interesting and self-serving. William J. Clinton
American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted. William J. Clinton
I am in support of the NRA position on gun control. William J. Clinton
I don't believe you can find any evidence of the fact that I have changed government policy solely because of a contribution. William J. Clinton
I haven't eaten at a McDonald's since I became President. William J. Clinton
I like the job. That's what I'll miss the most... I'm not sure anybody ever liked this as much as I've liked it. William J. Clinton
I tried marijuana once. I did not inhale. William J. Clinton
I was an equal opportunity eater. Every ethnic group got a shot. William J. Clinton
If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. William J. Clinton
In the new economy, information, education, and motivation are everything. William J. Clinton
In today's knowledge-based economy, what you earn depends on what you learn. Jobs in the information technology sector, for example, pay 85 percent more than the private sector average. William J. Clinton
It takes a long time to turn a big country around. Just be of good cheer and keep working on it. William J. Clinton
Let me say this as clearly as I can: No matter how sharp a grievance or how deep a hurt, there is no justification for killing innocents. William J. Clinton
Let us all take more responsibility, not only for ourselves and our families but for our communities and our country. William J. Clinton
My plan after office is to get up and spend that entire first day helping my wife move into her new senatorial office. William J. Clinton
Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel. William J. Clinton
One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line. William J. Clinton
Part of our essential humanity is paying respect to what God gave us and what will be here a long time after we're gone. William J. Clinton
Poor Darrell Hammond. What's he going to do when I leave office? William J. Clinton
Saddam Hussein didn't kill 3,100 people on Sept. 11. Osama bin Laden did, and as far as we know he's still alive. William J. Clinton
Strength and wisdom are not opposing values. William J. Clinton
The 22nd Amendment should probably be modified to say two consecutive terms instead of two terms for a lifetime. William J. Clinton
The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. William J. Clinton
The new rage is to say that the government is the cause of all our problems, and if only we had no government, we'd have no problems. I can tell you, that contradicts evidence, history, and common sense. William J. Clinton
There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in America. William J. Clinton
To realize the full possibilities of this economy, we must reach beyond our own borders, to shape the revolution that is tearing down barriers and building new networks among nations and individuals, and economies and cultures: globalization. It's the central reality of our time. William J. Clinton
Today, many companies are reporting that their number one constraint on growth is the inability to hire workers with the necessary skills. William J. Clinton
We must teach our children to resolve their conflicts with words, not weapons. William J. Clinton
When I took office, only high energy physicists had ever heard of what is called the Worldwide Web... Now even my cat has its own page. William J. Clinton
When we make college more affordable, we make the American dream more achievable. William J. Clinton
You are the most powerful cultural force in the world. William J. Clinton
You can put wings on a pig, but you don't make it an eagle. William J. Clinton
You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president. William J. Clinton
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Let me summarize this...
"Bill Clinton's Fault, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."
Sounds like gunner's at that 'ol familiar river in egypt....
Jim
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wrote:

I notice you didnt refute any of those quotes. Was there a reason you were unable..er..unwilling to do so?
And why did you snip em, rather then quote the entirty of the post as you usually do?
Laugh laugh laugh
You lefties are sooooo easy to screw with.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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It's getting old my friend. The country is heading over the waterfall and the best you can do is say 'it's his fault.'
Oil is going to be sold in euros pretty soon, and the debt in the country is spiraling out of control. There's no hope of ever ending the overseas war and it seems like all our politicos are flat-out crooks.
And you're still stuck in the past, nostalgic for the days when everything that was wrong with the country was summed up with 'democrat' or maybe it was 'clinton.'
Does anyone really believe that we should set our collective sights on 'what was wrong 6 years ago?' Or that by somehow burning clinton alive at the chappaqua stake it will somehow reverse all the disasters that the shrubster has foisted off on us?
Jim
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wrote:

Odd..I didnt blame anyone. I did point out some issues with one of your icons that you gave a pass to. Odd how you do that so often, yet display such angst if some other political party does the same.

Yes?
In those days..every thing that was wrong with the country WAS democrat or Clnton. You seem to be missing that point. Yet you allowed it to happen. What is transpiring today..is the culmination of 50 yrs of Democrat misdeed and misplanning. Damned shame you are now blaming the mechanic for having a hard time fixing the car of the ditzo blond who ran it into the ground.

Chappaqua or Chappaquidic?
It takes time to fix that blonds car...or a patient riddled with cancer that was treated too late. With luck..the prognosis is good..if not..well..thats why I became a survivalist. Not because of Bush..but because we survivalists could see the hand writing on the wall. many many years ago..Democrats again....lots of disasters in the making..now coming home to roost.
I hope you are not one of those that perish in the Burnoff. Id miss your wity repartee.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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There's that nostalgia again gunner. That was then, this is now. You need to keep your head in the moment.

Actually that was pretty funny. :^)
Jim
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wrote:

a few more for you to reflect on...read them in order.....
"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." [Nikita Khrushchev , February 25, 1956 20th Congress of the Communist Party]
"All our lives we fought against exalting the individual, against the elevation of the single person, and long ago we were over and done with the business of a hero, and here it comes up again: the glorification of one personality. This is not good at all." [Vladimir Lenin, as quoted in Not by Politics Alone]
"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:50:08 GMT, pyotr filipivich

LOL!!! Yes indeed!!
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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