Outdoor Welding

I've made a few parts to scribe lines and center punches. I made a point of it after my son gave me an optical center punch set for Christmas one year. I even have a couple height gages with carbide scribes for helping with layout, although one usually only gets used to measure tool heights to be entered into a CNC machine's tool table. Its pretty scary when I bring that carbide scribe down on top of a 0.026" ball nose end mill to measure the height.

-- Bob La Londe

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I learned to creep up on damageable things while wiggling paper between the part and the height gauge or endmill. When the paper drags I have a few thousandths of safe clearance left.

I've made a few parts to scribe lines and center punches. I made a point of it after my son gave me an optical center punch set for Christmas one year. I even have a couple height gages with carbide scribes for helping with layout, although one usually only gets used to measure tool heights to be entered into a CNC machine's tool table. Its pretty scary when I bring that carbide scribe down on top of a 0.026" ball nose end mill to measure the height. Bob La Londe

-------------------------- I haven't seen much if any need for manual layout when making new parts to drawings, it's for modifying existing parts and castings that lack drawings and reference surfaces. I use it to mount electrical components in plastic cases that compress when held firmly enough in the milling vise and can't be repeatedly zeroed.

For instance I repaired a pivot hole in a control handle that had become egg-shaped almost to uselessness by locating the original center by running a plug against the unworn side, boring the hole larger and pressing in a bushing. This helped repair a $100 Toro 724 snowblower with all repairable metal parts and good balance that doesn't hurt my back to maneuver. I can't usually repair broken plastic, I have to redesign the part in metal. A new plastic part could fail the same way when it becomes brittle in the cold.

Another way to mark a hole center is to press in a wooden plug and into that a square of sheet metal with its corners turned down. If other centers are known they can be used to scribe the missing center on the sheet metal. Punch, center and bore it on the mill or lathe. Taps ground between centers are useful for locating tapped through holes, pointed setscrews for blind ones.

Paper is fine, if you measure the paper. I learned that right here on this group. Most quality printer paper is about .003, but it can vary. Its also slow, and if your reference surface is wet or covered in oil its even slower because it changes the paper or you must take the time to clean the surface.

All of that being said, I make mistakes. I don't know how many edge finders I have destroyed by turning the handle or the MPG in the wrong direction, or by forgetting to reduce the spindle speed before I hit the start button. I do sometimes find myself using paper on edges and when it jerks out of my hand I advance the thickness of the paper and look for a witness mark. Paper is a good tool, but its far from the best tool.

FYI: People say an edge finder is only good to about .003, but I find with care and the .0001 step I have programed for the step increment for my MPGs its repeatable to about to within a couple tenths of the backlash of the machine. I've used an edge finder to put parts back on the machine when I didn't plan for it with a work stop. Its still only good to .002 to .003, but its the same .002 to .003 every time.

Lots of modestly experienced and self taught manual machinists in the maker crowd use layout as a sanity check.

Prints? PRINTS?! I have a hard time getting customers to rough out a pencil sketch. I have literally worked from crayon drawings on cocktail napkins. That being said I used to sketch on cocktail napkins back in the day when you might find me in a bar from time to time.

I don't use scribe and punch layout often, but just like sometimes its faster to make a part seat of the pants on the manual mill or crank the MPG wheel on one of the CNC mills. Sometimes its faster to create your print right on the part. I started out with CNC, and I was forced kicking and screaming to manual machining by that reality.

Paper is fine, if you measure the paper. I learned that right here on this group. Most quality printer paper is about .003, but it can vary. Its also slow, and if your reference surface is wet or covered in oil its even slower because it changes the paper or you must take the time to clean the surface.

----------------------------------- I use paper only to tell when to advance more slowly, by thousandths. I don't trust it as a feeler gauge either, only as a cushion.

Lots of modestly experienced and self taught manual machinists in the maker crowd use layout as a sanity check.

---------------------------------------- That makes sense if they are primarily a designer rather than a machinist. I was formally an electronic technician and laboratory manager, with circuit design, CAD/CAM, programming and machining on the side. I've done more machining on home projects than for work.

If the function of a part is obvious to me I'll draw it with dimensions and follow them, when it has multiple interactions to coordinate I may alternately redesign and machine what I'm sure of. I have several preliminary versions of the satellite laser link hardware that separately addressed its mechanical, electrical or optical requirements. Since I didn't have a relevant engineering degree I was much more convincing when I showed them a neatly machined sample of what I intended than when I described or sketched it. The project manager brought me in as an electronic tech and then gave me a free hand when he found I could also create hardware to his specs. One engineer said my black-painted optical work looked like the parts of a Norden bombsight.

Even further off topic. Growing up there was a crashed airplane across the street from the our grocery store out in the desert. Not to far away at all. Than black box (if it had one) instrument panel, engine/s, and landing gear had been removed. Probably also guns and a few other things. There was a lot of exploded 50 caliber rounds a few small strips of ammo links, one or two unexploded 50 cal rounds that survived, and a lot of other cool junk. Among the things I pulled from the wreckage where a couple metal boxes with two levers on them marked as bomb arming controls. I never knew what airplane it was, but we always assumed it was WWII vintage because there was a huge military training base out there during WWII.

Another trick if you are using HSS, or if you are very careful using

I prefer an edge finder, a tool height setter, and pre-measured tool heights, but you never know what kind of situation you may find yourself in.

• If using a sharp carbide cutter you have to take a lot of care to make sure you do not chip a cutting edge using the slip gage method.

Another trick if you are using HSS, or if you are very careful using

I prefer an edge finder, a tool height setter, and pre-measured tool heights, but you never know what kind of situation you may find yourself in.

• If using a sharp carbide cutter you have to take a lot of care to make sure you do not chip a cutting edge using the slip gage method. Bob La Londe

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Good advice.

I use the items you mentioned and drill shanks as spacers to set the lathe and mill stops for depth of cut when the tool contacts the original surface if caliper jaws won't fit. Like hobby machines, my 1960's antiques don't have DROs.

Plenty of "hobby" machines do have DROs. Just ask anybody who is using a high price "pro" machine that belongs to their boss's bank. LOL They will tell you all those import machines are hobby junk.

DROs are fairly cheap, and available for almost anything these days, but many of the "better" prosumer/hobby importers offer preinstalled DROs as an option.

There are even modestly priced DROs with bluetooth interface for a tablet or maybe a cell phone. I'm not sure there. I like my DRO hanging off of a big heavy steel arm.

I recently upgraded from a Shumatech DRO350 to a real DRO with optical scales instead of capacitive on my bench top mill . It hangs from a modestly sized piece of steel square tube . I briefly considered putting the Shumatech unit on my lathe but saw no particular advantage for doing so .

Plenty of "hobby" machines do have DROs. Just ask anybody who is using a high price "pro" machine that belongs to their boss's bank. LOL They will tell you all those import machines are hobby junk.

DROs are fairly cheap, and available for almost anything these days, but many of the "better" prosumer/hobby importers offer preinstalled DROs as an option.

There are even modestly priced DROs with bluetooth interface for a tablet or maybe a cell phone. I'm not sure there. I like my DRO hanging off of a big heavy steel arm. Bob La Londe

------------------------- I bought scales and a readout for the Clausing and made some mounting parts but didn't like the way it would turn out. The mill wasn't designed with space for them in mind.

Plenty of "hobby" machines do have DROs. Just ask anybody who is using a high price "pro" machine that belongs to their boss's bank. LOL They will tell you all those import machines are hobby junk.

DROs are fairly cheap, and available for almost anything these days, but many of the "better" prosumer/hobby importers offer preinstalled DROs as an option.

There are even modestly priced DROs with bluetooth interface for a tablet or maybe a cell phone. I'm not sure there. I like my DRO hanging off of a big heavy steel arm. Bob La Londe

------------------------- I bought scales and a readout for the Clausing and made some mounting parts but didn't like the way it would turn out. The mill wasn't designed with space for them in mind.

Old School DRO. Use a dial indicator. Its the default for longitudinal (Z axis) lathe work. Lots of people will set a zero to work towards on the indicator. I think its easier to hit the mark than a digital DRO because you can have it in your field of view while watching the work as opposed to having to look up at the DRO.

See my comment to Jim below.

I have two saddle stops for my lathe . One has a threaded rod , the other has a dial indicator . I usually use the dial indicator to figure out where to set the hard stop .

Old School DRO. Use a dial indicator. Its the default for longitudinal (Z axis) lathe work. Lots of people will set a zero to work towards on the indicator. I think its easier to hit the mark than a digital DRO because you can have it in your field of view while watching the work as opposed to having to look up at the DRO. Bob La Londe

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That does work well, I have a 2" travel indicator with a large dial for that purpose. There are two horizontal tapped holes in the ways below the headstock to mount it on, a lengthwise track and clamp would be better because the headstock overlaps and prevents using the vee way. There is some plunger length adjustment with an Enco indicator tip kit.

I used it to machine cast iron dumbbell halves into hemispheres for the pivoting bases of a shear leg hoist, by reading the X and Y coordinates from a spreadsheet using the circle equation X^2 + Y^2 = R^2. Quick roughing was by increasing R and the infeed step increment, both defined as absolute ($) cell constants I could change. For the finishing cut a round nosed bit with its radius added to R gave a surface smooth enough to file. The roughing bit was an easier shape to resharpen. The same process cut the laminated plywood socket.

I've seen an SB(?) accessory plate fastened to those holes that places a single vee way horizontally beside the headstock at or near spindle height, but no image or mention of what it's for in the SB parts manual or on line.

I have two saddle stops for my lathe . One has a threaded rod , the other has a dial indicator . I usually use the dial indicator to figure out where to set the hard stop . Snag

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I touch the bit against the end of the work and set the micrometer carriage stop against a block or rod of or near the size of the shoulder length I want to turn. The bulk of the carriage and slide prevent using caliper jaws.

I just realized that a ball or T shaped bore gauge set with a micrometer might serve to locate the stop.

Old School DRO. Use a dial indicator. Its the default for longitudinal (Z axis) lathe work. Lots of people will set a zero to work towards on the indicator. I think its easier to hit the mark than a digital DRO because you can have it in your field of view while watching the work as opposed to having to look up at the DRO.

Bob La Londe

-------------------------- A dial indicator on the carriage allows me to thread to a dead stop on the lathe, usually to get close to a shoulder or the bottom of a blind hole. Because the SB 10L has an easily exposed leather belt drive and back gearing I can pull up the belt clutch to stop the spindle within a quarter turn of the end, shut off the motor, and then turn the belt on the cone pulley by hand to feel the bit run up against the previous chip. When done the chip stack can be chiseled out and filed smooth.