Pearl Harbor

sarcasm? Ya think? no shit?

And your suggestions to the problem of preventing/stopping terrorism verses protecting individual rights are?

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Hint Jim..Im trying to find out how you would handle the dichotomy between personal rights and trashing the agencies responsible for preventing 9/11 and keeping acts of terrorism from happening.

Are you saying you don't have a clue?

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Its a dirty job, but someone has to do it

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Uh, Gunner .....

No Agency stopped 911. That's why there was a September 11th.

One of the ironies of 911 is the former FBI agent who was fired for his continual attempts at getting all the little pie holders in the FBI and other agencies to work together at counter terrorism took employment as the security chief of the Twin Towers and died in the collapse.

And so it goes.

No kidding?

Mass murder carried out years ago against a population the US Government didn't give a rats ass about with weapons we supplied.

Following your logic I should be locked up for the M-80s I had and blew off twenty years ago because I'm going to use those very same M-80s I put a match to twenty years ago.

THeres an idea, lets not let the meaning of words get in the way of our enthusiasm.

Since he was being sarcastic, no one would assume that he would vote for it. I tallied your vote because you express similar views. Was I wrong? ;-)

My suggestion is to cut the terrorists off at their knees, deprive them of their motivation, remove the cause that they fight for. The terrorists are winning their war against us because they have caused us to attack those things that we Americans hold most dear; our freedoms.

If we stop propping up all the various monarchs, dictators, and the one racist regime, the Arabs won't hate us. It will be their job to overthrow those governments. They will no longer blame us for their problems because we will not longer be the cause of their problems.

See how simple it was? As a bonus, that approach is compatible with American values. The ideals that we used to say that we stood for. People in the rest of the world will admire us again. We will stand for something other than big bombs. We will no longer be the bad guy.

Unfortunately from your point of view, none of this involves us shooting people or bombing them into the stone age. Sorry Gunner.

Pete.

Ayup. Read my later and longer post..

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:14:02 -0800, "SteveB" brought forth from the murky depths:

Ditto a batch of fertilizer and can of diesel fuel until OK City. To me, WMDs are anything which will kill many people at once. And there isn't a GDMF thing our country can do about that to make us all truly safe from any of that. Not in a free society. Any sick person could do that: anywhere and at any time. Look at the snipings lately. And look how our wonderful legal system is handling the pair they caught. Multiple trials, one in each involved state? Give me an effin' break.

That's what scares me more than terrorists do. Our gov't doing all these silly, wastefully-expensive-yet-perfectly-useless, rights-raping things and then trying to tell us that it will "Make us safe."

------------------------------------------------------- "i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society. ----

Dynamic Website Applications

If we shut down all the Gun Shows and round up all the right-wing extremist Gun Nuts and misc. survivalism posters we'll be sure to prevent another Oklahoma City style domestic terrorist bombing. Anybody who ever bought or read the 'Turner Diaries' and other publications of the American Nazi Party should be taken to gitmo as a un-American terrorist sympathiser...Register all the Veterans too, Mc Veigh was one so they must all be a security risk! Won't it be fun when a Democratic president gets to interpret the "'patriot' act"???

Flat-out untrue. The physics building in UW madison was detonated by exactly such a device. The folks who wanted to blow up the US Army Math Research Center decided that the physics building (Sterling Hall) looked like a better target for some unknown reason, and parked their van full of high-nitrate fertilizer that had been soaked in fuel oil outside and set it off.

They killed Robert Fassnacht, a researcher who was working in the building that night.

I worked in the shop directly inside of the blast area, and one could still see the gouge marks in the concrete floor where equipment had been blown across the room - the marks all radiated from one point on the exterior wall.

This event happened in the mid 70s IIRC.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Koz applauds Larry.

Maybe the Bush campain buzz slogan should be "don't you really like pretending you are safer now than you were 2 years ago?"

Koz

Larry Jaques wrote:

Ok, we have another vote for a police state.

Next?

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

And its all the morons clambering for the Government to Make them safe, and wailing when it cant be done. They want a Nanny State..but if you remove the rights to make it possible...Nanny becomes an Evil Witch.

"Thomas Jefferson once said, :Those who would trade safety for freedom deserve neither.? The implication being that those who trade their freedom in order to be safe also trade away the only defense they have against those that provide that safety. It is a fact that black slaves in the south were almost never murdered. They were far safer than free whites in that regard. All they had to trade for that safety was their dignity and freedom. It is a paradox our founding fathers were keenly aware of. Trusting in the magnanimity of a government which wields absolute power was something they were not willing to do."

Its also been said..that the Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

Striking a fine balance between the two..is the hard part.

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

1970. Woke me up some blocks away. Went back to sleep, had no idea what it was till next day...

If by morons, you mean a portion of the general public, I don't think so. Every single individual that I've talked to thinks that the new airport safety stuff is absolutely stupid. I think the bigger cause in this case is a combination of government wanting an excuse to grab control and industry fabricating a market for dubious expensive products.

I think that the great majority of people are not actively wanting the government to make them safe. The problem is for the *cough* honest politicians to make the hard and right decisions to call bullshit on stupid laws.

Not exactly such a device but wasn't the Port of Galveston(sp) blown up (accidently) in the early 1900s by a shipload of ammonium nitrate?

Laurie Forbes

Close, but no cigar. It was Texas City, Texas, which is just across a spit of water from Galveston Island. I would bet you a dollar that the year was

1947. Yes, it was a shipload of ammonium nitrate, and it destroyed darn near the whole town. It was a disaster of a ten on a ten scale. Occasionally, you see a segment about it on PBS or that type station.

Steve

We should handle terrorism the same way it was handled in the past when the huge bomb made such a mess of Wall St or when that school was blown up in (Wisconsin?). That was so many years ago people have forgotton about them. We should just clean up the mess and move on. When we are losing 35,000 Americans every year due to influenza coming from China why should the 3000 at the WTC be treated differently?

As far as preventing terrorism, it should be done statistically. We need fewer enemies, and we would have a lot less if we treated everyone fairly and didn't take sides in foreign disputes (as was suggested by George Washington in his farewell assress). The best Homeland Defense is for many americans to actually carry arms; if that had been done prior to 9/11 there is little doubt that there would have been no successful skyjackings.

If the govt wants to do something effective in stopping terrorism, it would rejuvinate the DCM with perhaps more emphasis on pistols; after all it is the pistol rather than the rifle that is the first line od defense. The rifle is an offensive weapon, the pistol (especially concealed) is all you have when you are surprised.