power supply

Those with incredible memory may know lightening hit the house last summer and took out two computers. Boot SSD drive in one and the video
card in another. Both computers anitques.
I've replaced the MB in one and am making it into the files storage location for everything. It now has six hard drives running and will go to ten if I can get a drive controller card to work.
Now the power supply is hopelessly under size. What would you get, especially with an eye on lightening protection?
karl
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On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:11:12 -0600, Karl Townsend

I remember cringing then, too.

So, if you're fighting against lightening, you need a heavy-duty Lightening Darkener. They're very expensive, but you can make your own. Just buy a gallon and spray India ink all over everything. There ya go: Darkening achieved!
What, guys? Oh, he meant to say "lightning"? Well why didn't he say so? That's different.
I don't recall what you did last year, but first would be to set up a lightning arrestor, followed by a high-joule whole-house surge suppressor, tailed by a nice UPS. You know how electronics are. The combo units all do lesser jobs than the discrete components, so I try to go discrete when I can. Just like the stereo, way back when. (I miss my good ears.)
Power supply: ATX or other format? I like to have 30-50% more power available to prevent the power supply from straining its whole lifetime, and I've never had a p/s die on me. What wattage is the package drawing now? Figure it out from there. All of my ATX style power supplies have been the cheap Chiwanese junk from the local stores, but, as I said, I've never had to replace one due to failure. And when I started DIVERSIFY!, I was doing mostly computer building and repair. I think I only replaced one bad p/s in those 3 years, too.
Hope that helps.
--
Stain and poly are their own punishment.

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yeah... My nice high-joule surge suppressor supplied by the Power Monopoly a) isn't covered for direct strikes, and b) went up in smoke when my shop had a direct strike to the power pole/pig just outside.
It took out everything electrical including some infrastructure wiring... All my CNCs, every computer, every EVERYTHING electronic that was plugged in. We do stay very well backed-up, and Ajax CNC special-shipped all the parts in just a day to rebuild what we had to.
We now have a protocol in the shop that on my command OR at the first audible sign of thunder, every single piece of anything we want to protect gets unplugged from EVERYTHING it's connected to... wall, ethernet lines, phone lines... everything.
That is the only sure way to protect it... and it wouldn't help in a lightning-induced fire... sigh.
The only good thing was that we ended up with better machines than we had before, since even the servos and encoders got fried. The baddest of all was that 'insurance' paid about 1/3 of the cost. ("Depreciation, you know!")
LLoyd
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On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:51:32 AM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Hey, it must be fancy to have insurance against not only vandalism, liability, accident and theft, but acts of nature.
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walter snipped-for-privacy@post.com fired this volley in

I don't know where you live, but around here, insurance for lightning damage is pretty 'standard'. They just won't cover replacement costs for anything a normal human could afford.
Lloyd
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On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 10:51:28 -0600 "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
<snip>

I'm in complete agreement on that method. I've been doing the same for years and haven't lost much. Missed an RS232 cable many years ago and that cost me an external modem. Still had some ground loops in between stuff even though everything else was pretty much unplugged. Working at a two-way radio shop with two ~160ft towers by the building didn't help...
We took a lightning hit once during work around noon time. I has standing in the garage bay where some of the towers radio equipment was in the corner. BIG KERZIT! Then a huge BOOM! I saw the arc flash in the corner by the radio equipment in numerous places. Didn't have to drive far for that service call ;-)
I saw a lot of different protection schemes back then and NONE of them were 100 percent. I use to have a collection of lightning damaged parts that was kind of cool. Sorry I left it behind now when I retired. Would have made some interesting images to post...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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I grouped the devices that most need isolation into one coax panel for outdoor antennas and cameras and two accessible outlet strips, one for the stereo rack and the other for the computer bench, so I can react quickly to thunder. -jsw
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On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 17:38:21 -0500
<snip>

In the day... I used an heavy on/off switch in a handy box mounted underneath my workbench. Normally I would just turn off the switch and that would kill power to everything at my workbench. That box had a cord that was simply plugged into the wall. If I had even a hint of bad weather coming I would pull the wall plug too, along with all the RJ-11 plugs to the phone lines.
Even during good times it was handy. If there was a power hiccup I could quickly kill everything at my bench until I knew for sure it was backup and stabilized again.
I remember reading an article in a trade magazine once. About a company that made a power disconnect controlled by an AM radio tuned to detect the static created by lightning activity. It would disconnect all power connections at said location and shunt them to ground until the detector registered that the storm had passed. I really liked that idea but never saw anything advertised/produced for it...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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wrote:

I bought a single-pole relay rated for "only" 75KV once. It was the size of a desk lamp and opened the contacts several inches.
-jsw
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On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:31:22 -0500
<snip>

Ouch!
The way I remember it the product used standard relays. The key was that in the off/relaxed position everything was shunted together to common ground point. Lightning could still jump the relay but it would be greatly reduced with everything shunted/grounded together. It was a pretty ambitious scheme if I remember correctly. The antenna lines were all disconnected, shunted too. Depending on the frequency, antenna switches can be pretty expensive too...
One of the radios I used to work on was the Motorola Micor series. They had an interesting antenna relay in them. They used two magnetic reed-switches encased in an aluminum (I think it was aluminum) housing. One switch had a magnet shrink wrapped to it keeping it in the closed position (receive side). A small coil (12vdc) went around the metal case. To transmit they applied 12vdc to the coil which in turn closed the open reed and opened the one with the magnet affixed... For an overall image:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0N1gxMzg5/z/li4AAOSwEeFU4uN5 /$_1.JPG
They made a great lightning arrester. Many, many times that is the only part I would have to replace after a tower lightning strike. If you took one apart, quite often the two reed-switches would be completely obliterated, just blown to bits... Motorola had a lifetime guarantee on those relays. Sent many of them back in for warranty replacement. You couldn't tell what happened to them without taking them apart :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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wrote:

The Ph.Ds at Mitre let me design a couple of diode T/R switches that worked well enough but I don't have the education to design the more complex versions like duplexers or circulators. I never saw anyone still using coaxial relays in digital radios, and they aren't cheap enough at ham fests to buy one to play with.
Except for GPS the stuff I worked on operated below 1 GHz, what they called "DC".

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Leon Fisk wrote:

If the tower was not properly grounded lightning will cause damage. Good grounding will carry off the charge and prevent it from doing damage. Our towers would get hit almost every lightning storm and no damage to the electronics. Most all of the telecommunications towers can withstand a direct hit with no damage. The power has to have some place to go and the best place is directly into the ground with the proper grounding system.
John
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On Sat, 07 Mar 2015 22:55:42 -0500
<snip>

Psst... John, wake up, you're dreaming...
I worked in two-way radio communication most of my career. Several of the towers I serviced equipment at were grounded to R56 spec, which was very ambitious and the best at the time. The equipment still took hits that caused considerable damage...
And other towers that had little to no grounding and got hit regularly, had very little equipment damage. Go figure...
Maybe our lightning had more oomph than your lightning ;-)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:22:14 AM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:

No. John is spot on. Leon, maybe its just that you haven't been through three or four years of electrician school.
Lightening or surge arresters have been in use for years (here in the 21 century). Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage, though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim above?
Look up what an surge arrestor (or lightning arrestor) actually is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com fired this volley in

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example", you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a "Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.
Lloyd
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12:42 PMLloyd E. Sponenburgh

There's no need to understand or remember EVERY SINGLE THING taught in any school, just to accept advice and get surge arresters for your circuitry like others do to avoid getting blasted. What do you use to think with half of the time, anyway?
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walter snipped-for-privacy@post.com fired this volley in

Uh, huh! Just "accept advice"... right. Don't remember what they taught you for good reasons... right.
Most guys who are successful at any technical endeavor don't think "half the time", they think "all the time" on the job.
Who said anything about NOT using surge arrestors? You use EVERY tool at your disposal -- including your brain, if you have one. Unfortunately, many don't do that last... they work strictly on 'muscle memory'.
Lloyd
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3:54 PMLloyd E. Sponenburgh walter snipped-for-privacy@post.com fired this volley in

And find a Master Electrician if you want something like that.

Fair enough.

If you had used a suitable surge suppressor and it failed then, causing all that damage, then that should look like a product liability lawsuit. Have you bothered to check into it?
(not that it's even my concern)
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walter snipped-for-privacy@post.com fired this volley in

Yes, actually. Since the power mongers expressly exclude "direct lighting strikes to the incoming service" as a covered instance, my attorney said all it would do was "cost me time and money" -- enough of which I'd already spent.
Lightning GROUND rods (never, ever, ever pointy lightning rods on the roof!), arc-gap arrestors, gas discharge arrestors, MOV surge arrestors, &c just are not 'full protection' against a multi-MW bolt directly to the service. It's not the same as when it hits even as little as a block away.
The only way to obtain relatively good protection is with a long-throw knife switch on all three incoming conductors; and even that's not a 'sure bet'. The best protection to your equipment is to make sure that every single item is physically disconnected from power during a weather event, or when you're away. So now, everything we have, including previously hard-wired equipment has a PLUG, not just a 'disconnect'. It's a pain... but it works. Doesn't protect the infrastructure, though. Nothing does.
Lloyd
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On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 4:46:56 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Motor-generator. End of discussion.
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