Question about old International crawler

So yesterday we were out at an "agratainment"
event where there was some old tractors. I
went up to an International crawler to see what
kind of engine it was. Well, there was a carb,
4 sparkplugs and a distributer. Went over to
the other side and there was 4 fuel injecters
and an injection pump. Went back around and
the carb and sparkplugs were still there (:
What's going on? I had never heard of such
a thing.
Reply to
Jim Stewart
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semidiesel?
Reply to
Robert Swinney
I do believe that some of the old diesels like that were started on distilate fuels such as gas and then once warmed up some would be switched over to diesel fuel.
tim
Reply to
TSJABS
This method of starting was quite common for International crawlers and farm tractors such as the 450s. Steve
Reply to
Sven
The old Internationals had an extra valve that opened up the combustion chamber to reduce compression and expose a spark plug. You started the engine on gasoline in cold weather then after it was warmed up you changed over to diesel by closing that extra valve and injecting fuel The whole idea was for cold weather starting. Old Cats used a starting engine instead of a starter motor and battery. You battery started the little gasoline motor that would warm up the main engine through common coolant and exhaust. Once warmed up sufficiantly you engaged the bendix on the main flywheel and started the large diesel. Randy
Reply to
Randy Zimmerman
Thanks for the explaination. I had assumed that the gas side was for cold weather starting, but I couldn't figure out how they could lower the compression ratio to do it. Some of those old engineers were pretty clever.
That I've seen done. A friend had an ancient Cat scraper and he started it up for us once in the dead of winter.
Reply to
Jim Stewart
It is called a pony engine.
Reply to
Andy Asberry
Ready for a story? When I was in the Navy Seabees I was young and cockey and thought I knew everything. The Chief told me to go start the dozer in the corner of the yard, he put me in my place... Once that was done he showed me how to start the pony engine and engage it watching for oil pressure in the main engine before starting it on gas, then switching it to fuel. Man that dozer could do alot of work. Rick
Reply to
Rhbuxton
My first try at one of those was an ancient D2 with the pony engine. Only trouble was the belt from the pony to the starter/generator was broken. So I had to start it with a cord wrapped around the pony engine pulley. Wound up starting a D2 diesel with a pull cord. :)
Randy Zimmerman wrote:
Reply to
RoyJ
I've got a 25kw generator with one of the International gas/diesel engines on it. Quite an interesting setup, purrs like Godzilla at 1,200 rpm. It also makes a very good smoke screen generator if you turn on the diesel injectors while running on gas :)
W.P.
RoyJ wrote:
Reply to
Pete C.
Probably a TD series crawler. IIRC, they came in TD6, TD9, and TD14. There may have been others that I don't know of. The gas only versions were T6 etc.
To start: Pull back the throttle (lever in the middle) and the vertical lever on the right side. Choke as needed, engage starter, and start on gas. Let it warm up for a bit, then simultaneously shove BOTH levers forward. Hopefully you are now running on diesel. Interesting system. Different from the CAT pony motor, which used a seperate small gas motor as a starter motor to spin up the diesel main motor. The old ponys were rope start, kind of like starting an old lawn mower.
Bill
Reply to
Bill Marrs
The Hesselman patented engine was used on some of the International McCormick Deering farm tractors as well. The 16/1 compression ratio was too low to permit a cold diesel start so a small gasoline fuel tank, carburetor, valve assembly and spark ignition were used for cold starting. You will find a cross section of a Wakeshau Hesselman engine here:
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Spud
Reply to
Spud
When I wrote my mechanics license test in '88 there was a question about the hesselman engine. I guessed that it was the gas/diesel and was the only person in Ontario that year who got that question right. Pat
Reply to
Pat Ford
The dozer blade cylinders had "Bucyrus-Erie" cast into them. Something else I found a little strange.
Reply to
Jim Stewart
A very likely explanation. This was common on many truck and implement engines of the period. I don't know about the IH crawler, specifically.
Also, conversion units, without injectors, were available to allow regular gasoline engines to burn kerosene or light Diesel oil .. AFTER they were warmed up on gasoline. This was popular during the war, presumably because gasoline was rationed more than heavier oils.
Dan Mitchell ============
Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell
BE once made a variety of earthmoving apparatus and attachments for tractors. They also made RR wrecking cranes, and ultimately huge stripping shovels and draglines. Their ultimate machine was the "Big Muskie" ... world's largest walking dragline (now scrapped). IIRC, it has a 225 cubic yard bucket (THAT, at least, was saved).
Dan Mitchell ============
Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell
During the war (WW II) gasoline was rationed but service stations could get cleaning solvent (kerosene ?) and it was not rationed. Gasoline engines would run on solvent if they were warmed up first. (been there - done that)
Bill K7NOM
Reply to
Bill Janssen
Yeah, but they damn sure wouldn't pass a smog test (:
Reply to
Jim Stewart
If you didn't want anyone to read your license plate you just pulled out the choke a little :-)
Bill K7NOM
Reply to
bill Janssen
Well, the old OLD cats used a two-cylinder opposed gasoline engine that was started with a pull rope around its exposed flywheel (like the outboard marine engines of the same vintage). Yes, it was called a "pony engine". The exhaust from the pony engine warmed the main Diesel intake manifold. I believe a Bendix gear on the pony engine would engage the flywheel on the main Diesel by pulling a lever, and then you shut down the pony. I don't think any of the International Harvester TD series ever had a pony engine. Dave
Reply to
David Anderson

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