Question: Temp reached by black anodized aluminum in direct sun

Patents have their place, but the time and cost of getting one is just not worth it for something like this. For small companies like ourselves, the idea is to hit the street hard and fast and get as much exposure as possible, while working on the next project. Our biggest dream right now is to get OCC to put one on a bike, while mentioning our name on the air. No doubt then, who was first, and that 3-4 seconds of air time would be worth thousands in advertising. They do sell other peoples components and we have been in contact with them.

A patent btw, only gives us the right to sue an infringer. I have better places to spend my money than on attorney fees for something of this scale!

I have another idea that is worth patenting. Initial market research showed a good potential of capturing 60% of the global market, US market alone worth over 6 million per year. I can't afford to patent it, let alone try and produce it. Any serious production effort would require hundreds of thousands of dollars in facilities, injection molding, automated handling and packaging. Very high volume, low profit. It's worth using a good patent attorney, and seeking funding, but can't afford the first step, so I just sit on it and hope like many other ideas over the years, someone doesn't beat me to the punch.

If the motorcycle parts business does well, we will look into funding the patent and seek investors in a few years. My partner knows what it is and likes it and the potential.

Time will tell!

Jon

So. Did you notice where I mentioned a backup mechanical connection besides the adhesive? You have the outer body of this "item" bonded to the round carbon-fiber fitting on the back, that the aluminum tubing mount bracket is glued into - drill a hole, install a cotter pin. Or two pop rivets.

Remember, even with the adhesive rated for 400F, you still have to deal with creep. When under long term low levels of stress the bonded parts will move, the adhesive will flow like amber and allow rotation and/or separation. Aluminum won't creep, carbon fiber polyester resin won't creep, but glues sure will.

They used a hard epoxy and threaded rod studs to bond the concrete 'drop ceiling' panels to the tunnel roof in the Boston "Big Dig" tunnels - but those epoxy anchors were loaded in pure tension, and they creeped out. And I think you heard about what happened next...

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Yes I did. And if we used pop rivets, we would be laughed out of the industry. When we start shipping, I'll post a link to our product as well as a link to a comparable item that uses pop rivets, and you will see what I am talking about. Theirs btw, almost works for the look they are trying to achieve, but they still fall short of a finished looking product.

I appreciate the concern you express, but there is no constant load, only very short term load spikes. For the finished item, appearance is everything. If the parts do not fly with adhesive, we have a back up plan to use a metal stud to tie the ends together. This will require some alteration to the internal design, but we really don't see it as being necessary.

I keep forgetting, but my partner used to work for Failure Analysis, and is well versed in testing, and still has connections with people that have diverse knowledge. I took it upon myself to start asking some questions before I brought it up to him, I wanted to present at least some data. But he saw right away that we really did need to test for the worst case. Now that we have decided to really nail down a definitive answer, we're going to determine actual maximum load conditions and maximum worst case temps, and test under those conditions.

Our gut feeling right now is that we have a 10x safety factor at room temp. Life critical safety factors generally run 2x to 3x, and we suspect we are still within that range at 200F. Tests will tell....

Thanks,

Jon

Anyone suggested Sikaflex 291? It may be worth a look:

Tensile strength of only 260psi, otherwise seems to have some decent numbers. It's listed as a sealant though, not for bonding.

Jon

I have a patented (US) high flow air cleaner system for Evo's and TC's. It didn't mean squat in th' real world when not only th' design aspects were ripped off by arlen ness, but H-D also stole th' f***in' name. They have bigger lawyers than I do. Game over.

Snarl

I hear ya. We were at the Easy Riders show in Sacramento last week. Just walking around and talking to people. We were very careful to not let some people see our product. Not to say we would be ripped off, just to be safe. Any larger builder than had his own manufacturing, we skipped, like Paul Yaffe. We talked to him a bit about his parts, and when he said he manufactured his own products, we complimented him on being all USA made, and moved on.

Did talk to a couple smaller builders that really liked what we had and want to use it on upcoming projects. And once we're sorted out and ready to really produce, we'll approach OCC and some of the big name builders. Last will be trying to get into J&P, Custom Chrome, etc.

It's damned tough for the little guy. Any such that innovate have just drawn a bulls eye on their backs if they are successful at all, or have a good idea but lack distribution.

We have trademarked our company name/logo and will be trademarking the name of this particular line of parts. That's a lot cheaper than a patent and it's easier to nail someone for trademark infringement than for patent infringement.

Were you driven entirely out of the market? Did you ever actually manufacture any yourself? If so, are you still making them?

Jon

I've used Sikaflex on my boat. It may not be promoted as a glue, but I was chewing bits of it off my fingers for several days afterwards. It made me think it's probably not such a bad bonding product!

Jordan