seeing eye dog for old techs

I use a 5 diopter glass fluorescent ring magnifier and it's difficult to see around the 9-1/2" overall diameter of the shade/housing.
Seeing detail is a lot easier, but reaching for something nearby is still problematic, at least for me.
I was just examining an early model of a battery pack charger from about 2002 which had a considerable amount of wire-wrapping gage wire jumpers all over the place, and the same wire was even used to tack leads onto surface mount devices which were then tacked onto other component terminals.. good grief. This charger was for the latest & greatest military tactical xenon arc lamp flashlight back then. I wouldn't have been able to do that assembly work since my 20s and maybe into my 30s.
The same board that was being used to power the flashlight was heavily modified to act as a separate external accessory charger board.
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wrote:

I have two aids I use. One is a Third Hand, a pair of movable roa...um, alligator clips on ball-jointed arms and a 4" magnifying glass, all on a weighted stand. http://tinyurl.com/bvlp8wv
The other is the ring-fluor mag lamp. I bought it for $30 at HF a dozen years ago and it still works great. (They're up to $40 now, Tim.) http://tinyurl.com/bomrc3b
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Heh... I guess this whole thing has 'gone over the heads' of the group (et. al.)
Guys, I was a HAM at 14 (de WA4ZEG, back when you had to know something, AND the code), co-owner of a successful TV/electronics repair shop when I was 16, and director of reasearch for a fairly large regional medical electronics/computers company at age 32. For those of you who remember them, I designed the Lt. Kernal hard disk system for Commodore 64/128 computers (back in the 80s). I'm 63 now.
I have not stopped designing and building custom PCBs and new circuits in all that time -- not even for a week. I probably design more new boards each year than all the rest of the regulars here, combined. And I have all the tools and the skills and the instruments (scopes, meters, signal generators, logic analyzers...), INCLUDING the equipment to do infrared reflow soldering -- at standard ROHS thermal profiles, or with leaded pastes.
I have a better binocular assembly microscope than I ever deserved getting (got it in a bankruptcy sale). I have clamps, 'third hands', micro-clips and manipulators, hemostats on swiveling bases... all the stuff.
But none of the above equipment supplies a person with what's needed to do 'masked' IR reflow, where the body of the chip may not be heated, only the leads. (I know, you guys would put a germanium IR detector chip through a wave soldering process... but I wouldn't)
And, NONE OF this discussion has been about building finished circuitry. It's been about bench-top prototyping. Anyone who suggested milling a custom board just to examine a prototype idea, or to explore a new chip's functions is just weird, and wrong, and has WAY too much time to waste.
Since I need custom circuitry in every piece of automation I sell, I need to do this a lot, and having to stop, design, and do isolation milling of a different board every time I want to evaluate a chip would just be a stupid waste of my time and my clients' money.
I thought (from all the past bragging) that there were some serious, component-level designers here. I was clearly wrong about that.
I really regret trying to pass on what I thought would be a favor. Please forget I mentioned it.
Lloyd
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At least you probably won't forget you mentioned it.
Readers might've been impessed if the rant was posted to an electronics design group/forum.
Most anyone has found things that make their life/job/hobby easier, but most don't post 'em to a metalworking group, and expect anyone reading it to express their deep felt gratitude as if you were handing out $100 bills.
Grip, reality.
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A machining group where many of the participants have, or are interested in doing CNC conversions, and who make machinery (which often needs custome electronics).
The whole statement was prefaced with "If you need full-custom electronics in your new machine...".
Grip, reality.
You must be a purely water-powered, line shaft sort of machinist.
LLoyd
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No quite.. you were right before, when you wrote you must've been wrong.
It ain't like you were offering a kidney.
Never said I was a machinist.. but I recommend the movie, well, for mature viewers anyway. The Machinist (2004)
I never cared much for kidneys.
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    These days, people here are convertering older machines to more modern CNC -- so logic design and prototyping is a reasonable skill to expect among some of us, at least.

    You don't convert older CNC machines to newer controllers?

    Self -- mirror
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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It doesn't matter to me (anymore) what anyone posts, but in about 15 years of participating in usenet groups, I think this was only the 3rd instance of someone complaining about, essentially, not receiving an award for their menial contribution.
Most conversions can be accomplished with off-the-shelf (or off eBag) products, from what I've seen over the years.
No.. I like manual metalworking machines, and it's not for income, it's rec-re-freakin-ation (as the Rcm acronym represents), and as numerous RCMers have pointed out over the years (including yourself, probably).
Self-mirror indeed, DoN.
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their

But hardly the first or even fiftieth instance of you and your ilk loudly denying the worth of someone's recommendation, just because you don't personally have a need for it. (or worse, do, but don't understand the issues)
Like the dolt who suggested soldering SMTs with a heat gun without knowing WHAT SMTs I was working with... That's like saying "I can perform surgery with an English Broadsword", before finding out it's a mouse on which eye surgery must be done.
Bill, if you have zero electronics skills, then light switches might be a challenge. Certainly you do not need pre-populated SMT breakout boards.
But that hardly makes the concept worthless.
LLoyd
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Adapter/conversion boards have been available for years.. I've also seen equipment with dip package enclosures to mount a few small components in, then place the cover on it. I've worked with ICs since the '70s. They aren't that complicated.. even reflowing large flat packs, and amizingly they even worked properly afterward. All the pins are right where they're supposed to be, deal with it.
So you imply that no one has your experience or expertise.. and everyone's too dumb to understand the importance.
I can't make it any clearer.. it was't the topic, it was the whining about not receiving the level of appreciation you were apparently assuming you'd receive.
Metalworking, recreation.. if I'd seen any indication that you could comprehend what's written, I'd suggest you look up those words.
It's similar to you going to a cooking class and discussing your bloody farts problem.
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If the cooking or the 'wild' cooks are the cause, then it's an apt subject for discussion.

Sure... TI released their first full-scale TTL Handbook in '67 or '68, but by then they were 'old hat' for real engineers. RTL and DTL were already on the phase-out by then.
But more to your point: If this recreational metalworking forum isn't the right place to discuss an electronics help for recreational machinists to do recreational CNC conversions, then where, exactly, should we discuss it?
Oh... I know... we'll go discuss machining-related subjects on the electronics-only/video games fora, and see how they respond. You say _I_ don't understand?
"Large flat packs" shows exactly where your accumulation of IC knowlege stopped. That was what -- '83? So I guess my "implication" of your skills was fully correct.
If you had any appreciation of the current technologies, I'd ask you to look up a few terms, too.
LLoyd
Lloyd
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...or even mentally competent; only a liar, pretending that stuff you 'read about on-line' is stuff you KNOW about. Twit!
Since you can't do either 'metalworking' or 'recreation' without confusing them with an opportunity to lie about something, why don't you now just 'shutthefuckup', as you say, Weird Blowhard.
Lloyd
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So ignore all the facts.. no surprise, since facts don't support you're agenda.
Ah.. counter-accusations. Is that rule #2 or #3 after rule #1: Deny?
You're a genuine idiot.
Timeline of posts.. you're blatently wrong, and won't become right regardless of how many accusations you dispense.
Maybe all the upper tier servers are lying too.
Go ahead, charm us with your impressions of yourself.. repeat after gummer.
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Bill, You were and are completely right. I was slightly off-base by offering a method I thought would benefit a few people here, without first asking everyone if they already had a better method.
I was even more off-base by being surprised and very disappointed that a DIY forum might not want and need an easy way to solve a problem I thought more folks here had.
Their methods clearly are adequate for all purposes with all types of ICs, and I rudely ignored that fact. It was completely wrong of me to try so hard to convince people of the merits of the idea, no matter if I have experience with all of their alternative methods, or not (for a fact, I do).
From now on, when I offer a method I think a few people might appreciate, I will very carefully preface any message I make about it with, "For anyone who doesn't already have a better method, let me offer this:"
Does that satisfy? Does that make amends for my selfish behavior?
Lloyd
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On Sat, 04 May 2013 08:51:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Newp. We need no apology, but you rudely ignored those of us who already had him neatly stuffed in our twit filters by posting to him. Twit him immediately, please. It'll make _you_ feel better, too.
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Twitting now. LS
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On Sat, 04 May 2013 09:16:40 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Well done, sir!
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On Sat, 04 May 2013 09:16:40 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Thank you!
"The ruling class doesn't care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake." Malcolm Wallop former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)
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On 5/1/2013 7:16 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

    Lloyd, Thank You for the tip and the personal(?sp) information. I am not now nor have ever been a component-level designer, however as a Tech I have worked with many Engineers, both Electronic and Mechanical.     I am now 66 yrs old and I understand what you are talking about. The eyes do not work as well as they did when I was in my 20sand 30s. The job was easier then due to better vision and 74xx DIPS and larger discrete components.     Again thank You for taking the time to tell us what you have learned, and stick around for you are knowledgeable and interesting.
Bob
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On Wed, 01 May 2013 06:16:06 -0500, the renowned "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

Lloyd, thanks for griping about it ;-) I actually went back and read your first post, which was indeed useful and new information (to me).
Another option that is sometimes available is to get an evaluation board for the chip, often (not always) they are sold inexpensively, come with the chip and support stuff (new stuff often needs lots of supplies etc.) all populated. A lot of the TI ones are like $20.
There's a new Ethernet PHY chip I'd like to evaluate, unfortunately the eval board for it is $400 and the eval board I have in hand for the processor has the relevant pins hidden under the mounted chip and going nowhere. I don't feel like trying to wire a 256-pin BGA up manually, so a 6 layer fine pitch board is about the minimum. Or buy another $400 eval board for the MCU, spend an hour or two hacking them together and then I'm in $800 + a few hours and no further ahead with making the first real board. 8-(
I have (electronic) test jigs and such like that are made using evaluation boards.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
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