Six versus 12 point sockets

The good snap-on stuff was the surplus stuff from the militay. It was not chromed and you could hang onto it even when it got grease and oil on it. The best thing about snap-on was that they came to your door and if you broke something (except power tools) they would replace it. I have an old set of craftsman that I bought in the early sixties that is as good as any snapon set. The fine tooth craftsman ratchets were better than the snap-on ones especially in tight places. Snapon screwdrivers were much better than craftman as well as their snapring pliers and other assorted stuff. I have a set of deep 1/4 inch 12 point snapon sockets with a straight 1/4 inch handle that I have been using for 30 years, mainly for electronics work,

John

For those real rusty bolt heads I carry a little 4 inch Rigid pipe wrench. that is a real handy tool to have, by the way. It doesn't take up much room in the toolbox.

John

My gut reaction is that the torque required to round off a hexagonal nut using a 12-point socket will be greater than the torque required to shear off the stud. I might be wrong, though. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows for certain.

Best wishes,

Chris

Cheap nuts will readily deform. With a six point socket they have to deform more for the socket to slip. The shear area increases until the socket slips or turns the nut.

John

I just spent a few minutes thinking about this. In order for a 6-point socket to spin on a nut, it would have to round the nut off so that it is completely circular. A 12-point socket would not need to round off the nut off to this extent, so I think it's a fair conclusion that it would require more torque to make the 6-point socket spin on a nut.

Here's a diagram showing what I mean:

How much extra torque would be needed to round off a nut using a 6-point socket instead of a 12-point socket I don't know, but I imagine it would be significant.

Best wishes,

Chris

Interesting. I've never rounded off a nut using a 12-point socket, but I've broken the stud on numerous occasions.

Best wishes,

Chris

Tom

Point taken. but those are specialty fasteners for plumbing/ Pipefitting? i have not run across one in my travels yet

Which does not help to explain the wide availability of 12 point sets

when i first found square nuts requiring any amount of torque i immediately went out and bought 8 point sockets (it was on my lathe) As you say the 12 point has 4 faces at 90 degrees from each other But my math and geometry says 360 divided by 12 tells me there is a flat face ever 30 degrees and that they would only have 2/3 the contact area of a hex bolt held in the same socket. and when the issue is the already lessened contact area lessening it by more seems foolish

but once again the same point can be said for 8 point sockets compared to 4 pointers. But i couldnt find 4 pointers so i got the eight pointers that i did discover

the mention of tighter areas makes sense but it also points to them being more of a specialty socket than a general one widely available

It is when you edit it to fit your opinion. Here is the original post:

"Quality 12 point wrenches have thinner walls than six point- this can be a huge advantage if you have to sneak around a part to get to a fastener or remove a fastener that is in a deep bore.. Auto mechanics (I used to be one) prefer 12 point tools because they take less time to fit onto a fastener- since most mechanics are paid by the job, every second counts."

-Carl

I couldnt find my 6point impact socket so tried to pull lug nuts with a

12point on an I/R impact wrench.

Ooops.

I quickly went and bought another 6point before I ruined all the lug nuts.

Gunner

This Message is guaranteed environmentally friendly Manufactured with 10% post consumer ASCII Meets all EPA regulations for clean air Using only naturally occuring fibers Use the Message with confidance. (Some settling may occure in transit.) (Best if Used before May 13, 2009)

That's because you're doing it all wrong- you should be using 12 point sockets purchased from Kmart or Big Lots. Further, you should be driving them with a 1 inch impact gun (with the correct reducers, of course) or a 6 foot long cheater bar.

-Carl

Others have noted that a 12 slips on quicker than a 6, and often is thinner-walled so can fit in places where a 6-point will not.

The advantage to a 6-point (and thicker walls) is the matter of "spring" with heavy torque. A socket, 6 or 12, grabs the corners of the nut or bolt head, not the flats. The corners on a 6 are deeper, so the socket can stretch more circumferentially under stress without slipping off the corners and barfing up the fastener. A 6 will also often accomodate corners that have been barfed up too much for a 12 to grab.

I much prefer 12's for general use, but I grab a thick 6 if there is to be heavy torque and/or when an impact wrench will be employed.

Tolerances also come into play. Tolerances on fasteners (and more than a few tools) have gotten rather sloppy over the years. I've seen hardware that it was hard to tell by measurement whether it was supposed to be SAE or metric, either by threads or heads. This is particularly true of Chinese import stuff, and a lot of hardware is now imported. A loose-fitting 12 is a lot more likely to slip than a similarly ill-fitting 6.

:-) Very good Tom. :-) ...lew...

On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:50:54 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Christopher Tidy quickly quoth:

I ended up grinding some of my 12-pointers to make them usable for the interim, until I got a 6-pointer for daily use. That helped.

----- Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it... --Philip K. Dick

A 12 point will fit a square nut or bolt. rgentry at oz dot net

How does that work? Surely a 12-point is like a 6-point, but with more material removed, so you can't turn a 12-point into a 6-point by grinding.

Chris

In tight places! When you can't get a ratchet in, no clearance for an extension.

Steve R.

When I was a motorcycle "wrench", we had to be fast and get it right! A mistake could cost someone their life! Slow could cost me a customer!

Steve R.