Six versus 12 point sockets

Sometimes you can cram a 12 pt. on a square nut or Tap , or eze-out-- Sumpin you can't do w/ a 12 pt.

Reply to
Jerry Wass
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If there is a chance of breaking the socket, always use the one that has the lifetime warranty or the worst looking one that has the lifetime warranty.

John

Reply to
John

Most of the important bolts on a jet aircraft are 12 point. NAS close tolerance bolts. When you put a 12 point socket on one of those, you know you will not slip on the bolt. Don't expect to buy them in the local hardware, some of the bigger ones go for over 300 bucks each. ( main wing bolts on a 727) and that was back in the 80's. I think they were titanium though.

John

Reply to
John

I've ripped the points off grade eight nuts with 6-point sockets many times without hurting the studs. At that point I'd grab a pipe wrench and a torch to get 'em loose. I've also torn the heads loose from "Budd" wheel inner nuts, which have square heads. IME, 12-point sockets do break or round off nuts more often than

6-point sockets, but not significantly so. It's more common to break the shaft of the bolt or back the stud out of the housing. But that may all change quite a bit when you work with softer stuff like grade five and grade none from home Depot. (: I use my 12-points because that's what I started with. I figured I'd switch to 6-point as I broke my 12s, which has not happened yet. But it's only been five years. 12-point screws are common on truck drivelines, and becoming more common inside diesel engines. Especially Mack and Cummins. Also practically all starter motor bolts. Never stripped a head, but ripped plenty off.
Reply to
B.B.

True, but I've had to deal with a square nut or bolt maybe twice this decade. And, the angle is wrong on a 12 point for those anyway - it'll fit maybe, but it's not the right angle. I have 8-point sockets for those (nearly completely unused as it happens). Other than 12-point bolts which I think I've only seen on turbochargers in my experience, I'm not seeing a big demand here.

Reply to
Dave Hinz

There is a lot of crap around that they call grade 8, even from reputable national suppliers. Ive went around in a circle once because the bolts kept snapping on a hydraulic end plate when the pressure was applied. 75k lb. tensle bolts were tested and snapped at about 25k lbs. The whole batch was bad the did not fasten properly...al of them.

John

Reply to
John

A little off topic for this thread, but here goes.

I had a duplicate set of older well worn, Craftsman fractional 3/8" drive thin wall 12pt sockets I cut down to make a set of 'stubbys' (as opposed to deeps). Each is cut to just reach over it's matching bolt head depth.

This set doesn't get a whole lot of use, but 3 or 4 times a year they're just the thing.

Recently I acquired a duplicate set of metrics, and did the same thing, though haven't had a need for them as yet. I'm sure it's only a matter of time now.

Interesting thing... I busted my 1/2" 'stubby' a while back, and took it back to sears with a load of other brokens. The guy at the counter asked 'why is it so short?' I said it's just well worn... he nodded and said 'ahhh' as he replaced it. The new one is bigger in diameter though :(

Erik

Reply to
Erik

On 12 point bolts and nuts, for starters. Also in close fitting situations a 12 point can have a smaller outer ID than a 6 point with the same strength.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

Likewise. In NORMAL situations, where fasteners are not severely corroded/burnt I like the 12 pointers just fine. If they are badly corroded/burnt they will split a 6 pointer as easily as they will strip on a 12.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:09:53 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Christopher Tidy quickly quoth:

Silly wabbit. :)

The nose is rounded, so grind it off to where the flutes are flat.

Another something that noone else mentioned was the fact that ALL impact sockets are 6-pointers. (At least in the automotive world)

- Metaphors Be With You -

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Not necessarily...

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Sorry about the long link.

I know a guy who's used 12 point impacts for eons doing automotive with no problems.

Erik

Reply to
Erik

Whereas I've fitted over 540 square headed bolts in the last week to one vehicle alone, with plenty to go yet.

Tom

Reply to
Tom

Stove bolts used to be readily available, with square heads and square nuts. Twelve point sockets fit them. Six point sockets don't.

Harold

Reply to
Harold and Susan Vordos

Like you, I bought a set of Craftsman wrenches in the early 60's. For a year, I worked in machine tool repair where I was employed. The head repairman, an ex-Snap-on dealer, had a nice set of tools, and wasn't too impressed with my new acquisition. I told him the warranty was every bit as good as the Snap-on, and the wrenches were likely made as well.

He told me to measure the openings. That ended the discussion. Snap-on wrenches are held closer to nominal size than the Craftsman wrenches were ( a LOT closer, in fact). That's a definite plus if you don't like rounding off nuts and heads of bolts.

Harold

Reply to
Harold and Susan Vordos

Another thought... Personally I'm a 12 pointer to the bone.

However, for situations involving small fastener heads, like 1/4" and under, 6 point is definitely the way to go. Not a lot of sockets and/or box end wrenches are even made 12 point that small. (Yea, I know a few are...)

Erik

Reply to
Erik

I meant to include this in my last post, but forgot, my bad.

12 point sockets also have an advantage when forced to work on fasteners that are filthy... I'm talking about the ones with spooge packed on and around beyond belief. For instance as in many real world automotive situations.

The extra unoccupied 6 points act a 'crud relief ports' I guess you could call them, making the socket easier to push down over the head.

Erik

Reply to
Erik

Nice graphics!

What you see is, that as soon as the edge of the nut is rounded off, the lever/radius (to apply torque) shortens. So the torque that can be applied before rounding the nut even more off is getting smaller.

Only advantage of a six point nut is, that you can make the rounded nut smaller. :-)

You can also see that, with the 6 point nut, as soon as the line of contact is getting more to the middle of the nut's six flats, you have a ramp (leverage) that only helps in expanding the nut (and thus break it). But the torque onto the nut is decreasing.

Did I answer that?

Nick

Reply to
Nick Mueller

Thats the best one Ive heard yet!!!!!! Great point Shaun

Reply to
Shaun Van Poecke

Nope, in the real world 12 point sockets on hex head bolts suck big time mainly because of corner rounding.

Over the past few years most mechanics have completely dumped the use of 12 point sockets for 6 point with the drive applied to the flat rather than on the corner. 1/4" and 3/8" drive 6 point sockets dominate for most bad access engine work because they simply work, the lack of 12 point is hardly ever a consideration with fine tooth ratchets.

Your own country might be different but here in the UK with a few exceptions 12 point sockets are not even available off the shelf from the regular tool supplier vans or reps that visit us, one of whom I've known for years mentioned that the 6 point type now dominate their sales by something like 1000:1 so they don't even routinely stock the

12 points except back in the national warehouse.

While I still have lots of old 12 point sockets handed down over the years as backup in a spare tool chest at home my regular "work" tool chest has exactly one 12 point socket, 10mm as used on one particular bolt on one particular vehicle during a cam belt change. It was a panic buy a couple of years ago from a cheap local supplier of import tools precisely because the local tool rep (Snap-On in this case) couldn't supply off the back of the van.

Reply to
Mike

IU've mentioned this here before, but I'll mention it again. When I got into the trade in 1968 I bought a set of Craftsman tools. In 1969, a frirnd of mine bought basically the same set from SnapOn. Within 2

1/2 years (by the end of our apprenticeship) he had replaced almost 50% of his tools (broken). I had replaced NONE. I worked mine every bit as hard as he did. I STILL have better than half of the original set. Those I do not have were mostly lost. I've BROKEN about 4 sockets and a couple wrenches. (and a water-pimp pliers, a hammer handle and a few screwdrivers)Rebuilt the ratchets a few times too. I've also bought Herbrand, SK, Proto, Snap-On, Grey and a handful of other brands. Other than the ratchets and wrenches being a bit clunkier than some, the Craftsman were as good as any.And not as clunky as the Gedore.
Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

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