The collet set for my Levin lathe starts at .004 and increments .004
larger for each collet. Actually, the first collet is .003937 and
subsequent ones increase ar the rate of .003937. And yes, I've used
the smallest for paying work.
Wise Ass Eric
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:33:29 -0700, Eric R Snow wrote:
Actually, I knew Levin lathe collets ran about that small! I didn't have
numbers, just general knowledge. I too was being a wise ass with my
challenge because earlier in the thread, I already said I was holding .010"
wire. I was pretty confident there was no such beast as a .010" Erikson
How are the Levin collets held in the lathe? Collet nut like the Erikson et
al? Drawn in from the rear (5C)? Is it a single angle, double, or more?
Are the collets split from both ends and close fairly parallel independant
of size? I was just wondering if I *could* adapt a Levin collet to the
I know the downside is that a collet and nut assembly would be too slow,
hence the albrecht chuck we're using. So a draw type closer would be better
and faster. Minimizing TIR is VERY important.
The collets are similar to the 5C. The length to diameter ratio is
different. These small collets are longer compared to the diameter
than a 5C. Derbyshire makes and sells instrument lathes too and they
are cheaper than Levin. Their collets have a runout not to exceed
.0002. I don't have a current catalog but their number is 508 842
8319. The collets are drawn into the tapered spindle nose just like a
5C. These collets could easily be adapted to your fixture. If I was
doing it I'd use air to pull it back. Or, the collet can be fixed and
the tapered spindle nose pushed forward by air. You could buy an air
collet closer from MSC for about $200.00. They sell one made by Eagle
Rock, MSC part # 09148255. I have one of these that I've used for at
least ten years now. It is a good unit. I am certain that a taper
adapter could be made and then any collet smaller than 5C could be
used. The advantage with this closer is that the collet never mover so
holding a dead length is easy. You should be able to hold position
within .0002 in all three axes. This assumes that the collet is not
spinning. If it spins, you could still use the above fixture with a
rotary union. Or, you could make your own lever or air drawbar. If you
are making lots of these parts then an air actuated drawbar is great.
Erickson makes a 1/32 collet and they claim a full 1/32 range for each
collet so I'm reasonably sure it will go down to .010
Look up Erickson DA300 series collets.
BTW: loose the attitude. We are trying to help you.
If you were not behaving like a jerk, I would actually pull my set
out and try it.
On 8 Jul 2004 15:26:47 GMT, Charles A. Sherwood wrote:
First of all, it's lose, not loose, the attitude.
Second, I understand that most folks in this NG just wanna help. I
appreciate that. Their are many lifetimes worth of useful information
available from the participants and I try and provide useful information
when I'm able. However, I litle patience for the OT banter, and wrong,
incorrect and useless information. It is a waste of my time and wrong info
sends me in search of a product, for example, that won't work. Yeah, shit
happens and people make mistakes. No worries in those instances. But YOU,
however, are convinced I can use use an Erickson DA300 series collet to hold
a .005" and .010" wire! And, you tell me this without having ever done it!
Third, I will post a thorough public apology to you on this NG when you tell
me (I'll take your word as an honorable gentleman) that you are able to
successfully hold a .005" wire with your Erickson DA300 series 1/32 collet
and provide the model/part number of that collet. You must hold the wire as
a collet is intended. ie. the wire should be concentric with the collet and
not pinched between the "flats". You should be able to pull on the wire
once held with ~5-8 pounds of force and not have any slippage.
Your court, bud.
I think you have the wrong perspective about new groups. I look at them
as a source for ideas; Not for proven solutions. I provided you with
an idea that has high probability of working. A little reseach on your
end will tell you if my suggestion will solve your problem. Perhaps
just a phone call to erickson tech support. As is common with newgroups;
You need to weed out the good suggestions from the bad ones.
From my perspective, You are requesting me to suggest a solution,
test the solution to your specs and then provide you with part
numbers so you can order it.
Sounds to me like you need to hire a consultant !
On 9 Jul 2004 15:46:08 GMT, Charles A. Sherwood wrote:
FWIW, I've been participating in NG for ~12 years. Finding ideas is one
use. I also see them as way to prevent myself from "reinventing the wheel".
I can modify or use an existing "wheel". There is no way you can convince
me that you never do the same. I also use NGs to help others when I'm able.
I provide PROVEN methods as well as possible alternatives.
I actually have a fair amount of experience with Erickson and other DA
collets. My experience told me your suggestion actually had a very LOW
probability of working. Hence, my original "thanks" and gentle reminder
that I was using small wire. See my response to your first post.
You then pushed on about a variety of collet sizes and finally:
"Erickson makes a 1/32 collet and they claim a full 1/32 range for each
collet so I'm reasonably sure it will go down to .010
Look up Erickson DA300 series collets."
My experience again tells me that a 1/32 collet does NOT have a 1/32 range.
Think about it. If it actually closed to zero, you'd have knife edges that
matched perfectly in the middle. Your quote is stated as fact while giving
yourself the ability to shift blame to Erickson for mis-stating their
capabilities ("...they claim...").
Well, to double check myself and you, I did do online research and couldn't
find a 1/32 collet with 1/32 range. You can get a 1/16 collet with 1/32
range thus having a min. capacity of 1/32. ...Long ways from .010"
I did and all was good until you perceived me to have a poor attitude. I'm
not thin skinned and can take a lot of crap, righteous or not. Perhaps I
was in a poor mood that night, but I got a bit pieved when you had the
audacity to insult me, then tell me as fact a bunch of specs that I highly
suspected to be wrong and (wasted my time) investigating.
Your perspective is wrong. Again, you made the above quote as fact
("Erickson makes..."). You then implied that you had a 1/32 collet ("If you
were not behaving like a jerk, I would actually pull my set out and try
it.") I am DEFYING you to prove yourself right.
I will not be ordering a collet and nut set up for this fixture. If you
read one of my first post in this thread, you'll see that this is a
production fixture and I already said a nut/spanner type holder is too slow
My "specs" to which I asked you to test are not unreasonable. I just want
to be sure you are complying to the "spirit" of the test and not just
achieving positive results by testing to the "letter" of the test.
But fine, don't provide me with a part number, just try it and tell this NG
whether or not you did it. And when you are unable, use that as a lesson to
remind yourself that perhaps YOU should check out your "facts" before
spewing them forth as gospel. You can also use the result as a reminder on
how you should determine "high probability of working" without performing
any analysis, statistical or otherwise.
I can't. I AM the consultant. However, I did try to "hire" you. Your
payment was to be an apology. Apparently, that wasn't enough though.
I've never seen an MT-JT arbor with a through hole in it. If I needed
the services of such an animal, I'd use my Jacobs headstock chuck
that's threaded 1 1/2"-8 in the lathe. For fixure use, I'd
incorporate one of those square 5C collet blocks with a closer and a
5C collet of the appropriate size.
On 2 Jul 2004 08:35:22 -0700, Stan Schaefer wrote:
If I needed
We tried a Jacobs threaded chuck first. It was a smaller thread (on a
smaller chuck), but had too much runout.
For fixure use, I'd
The collet block closers that I've seen do not have a thru hole. The cam
mechanism is in the middle. The nut and spanner closer would work, but that
is too slow and (relatively) awkward to use for a production fixture.
Thanks for the ideas though.
BTW, it's a .010" SST wire about 48" long. The fixture does "stuff" to the
end of the wire sticking outta the chuck. Realize that when I have .010"
parts to work with, I don't have a whole lot of room for tolerance issues.
.0015" TIR on the Jacobs threaded chuck was too much.
Hi there - the spinde bore is R8. I'm trying to use something that
preserves as much of the spindle to workpiece space as possible.
I don't have a set of collets yet (using endmill holders).
I'm not sure I know what you mean by drill drivers - are they like
bushings or something? The fewer interfaces I have between spinde and
cutting tool, the better - can you elaborate on the drill drivers?
Albrecht (and other clone keyless chucks) tend to be a little
longer than a Jacobs style keyed chuck of the same size.
I've got Albrecht in 1/8, 1/4" and 1/2". I've got an older Rohm
Albrecht clone in 3/8". I find little to choose between them. I've
also got a 5/8" Albrecht clone from Poland which is not as smooth as the
Albrecht and the Rohm, but still pretty good. (I also have a 1/2"
Jacobs keyless, which is patterned after the Albrecht, but is not quite
a clone. It is also quite good.
I think that any of the Albrecht keyless clones will be roughly
the same size for the same capacity -- and will all be noticeably larger
than the equivalent capacity keyed Jacobs and clones.
I have in a small lathe (Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC) three keyless
chucks on MT-1 arbors. The 1/8" Albrecht (very nice for tiny bits, down
through #80.) The 1/4" Albrecht (nice general purpose for that 5"
lathe), and the 3/8" Rohm. All are very good for their purposes. Any
from 3/8" on down should hold drills down to #80 size. I also have a
1/4" Jacobs on a MT-1 arbor which I use when the 1/4" Albrecht is just a
shade too long. (I also have some drill bits with MT-1 arbors, so I can
totally skip the chucks for those. The one which I use most is a 6"
long flute 0.380" diameter which is my best choice for drilling out the
center of a workpiece prior to boring.
The 1/2" Jacobs keyless is on the drill press.
The 5/8" Albrecht clone is on my 12x24" Clausing lathe. I also
have a 1/2" Albrecht for it in a MT-2->MT-3 adaptor sleeve.
Track eBay. Most of these, except the 3/8" Rohm and the 1/2"
Albrecht came from there. Those I have had since before eBay -- along
with a Cameron Precision sensitive drill press with a 1/8" Albrecht
which came with it when new. For most of them, I had to go to MSC to
get a good quality arbor to adapt them to my machines.
Also get a keyed chuck for the mill -- if you *ever* will use
left-hand drill bits. (Those drill bits are particularly nice for
drilling out broken screws. They tend to dig in as they break through
the far end, and will often unscrew the remains of the screw.
In any case -- the reason for the keyed chuck -- the keyless
ones will self-release when you try to run them backwards, just as they
self-tighten when used normally. (Yes -- you can get special versions
which have an additional locking mechanism, but aside from the improved
runout over the typical Jacobs style keyed chuck, they are a *lot* more
affordable than the lockable Albrecht.
Note, I don't know the HF 44991, so I don't know whether it is
an R8 shank or some other. I do know that Albrecht chucks are made with
integral shanks for R8 and for the 30, 40, and 50 taper shanks) which
tend to be a bit shorter than the usual combination of a shank and a
chuck joined by a Jacobs taper. However, these are also far from
affordable -- except for a company making money from their tools. :-(
I hope that this helps,
Email: < email@example.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
Hi Machine man - I have my eye on that one. I've seen and used the
ball bearing types and really like them a ton.
Thanks for your help. I think that I will possibly get this one "next
time around" while going with the keyless one now.
I certainly have learned alot about drill chucks doing the "whats best
to buy" comparison.
I do have an old jacobs "multicraft" which is the right size (about
1.5 long) for what I need, but probably not the right quality. It has
the funky thread mount that I can't find an arbor (1/2 straight dia)
for. It looks like these are for ahnd drills anyways.
This is a good deal for both parties. Trade with Gunner, then
replace the 1/2" Albrecht with an import. The Albrecht precision is
more important in the smaller chuck. I have two 1/2" import
Albrecht clones (one for the mill, another for the lathe) that I've
been very satisfied with. I got them from Grizzley, I think with
1/2" straight-shank arbors, for about $50 -- but this was some years
Re #1 morse arbors: "easily removed" is a matter of having the
wedges. Ask Gunner to remove them before shipping.
Thanks for the offer, but I am pretty attached to the large chuck. It
will come in very handy when I do any plate work. Right now i'm
losing about 3 inches to the vice and another 4 to the drill chuck and
then a bit to the drill and forget about the workpiece.
My hopes are to someday graduate to a "real" knee mill, but for now
the small but useful HF mini-mill will have to do (and it has done a
fine job for me so far). Once I graduate, this drill chuck will be a
Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.