Steel Conduit Question


OK, I have now established proper metal content. The issue is more of an
electrical code issue, and I'm hoping the wealth of knowledge of the
usual suspects can help me out.
My basement shop needs more outlets. I had a nice new breaker panel
installed a few years back, and it's time to add an outlet so I can run
my mill without first unplugging the lathe.
The basement is finished, and has a "half wall" of wooden tongue & groove
boards that ends about 10" below the bottom of the breaker panel box.
The top of the wall is capped with a piece of 2x molding. The wall is
built on 2x3 studs, and the plan is to mount the outlet box in the wall.
I can run Romex once I'm in the wall, but I need to get from the breaker
box to the top of the wall in a protected (and hopefully tidy) fashion.
My original notion was to bend up 1/2" conduit to bridge the gap. I can
drill a hole in the top of the wall large enough to insert an inch or two
of conduit. I can attach it to the breaker box with a standard clamp,
going in through one of the bottom knockouts. I would then snake the
Romex down through the conduit & into the wall.
The question is whether code requires any sort of bushing or clamp on
either end of the conduit. Loose wires run in conduit do not require
clamps. If the Romex was exposed where it came out of the conduit, a
clamp would be required that fits on the end of conduit. It would take a
much larger hole to fit the clamp down through the top of the wall, and
the Romex is never exposed anywhere.
For my own peace of mind, it would be nice to have a clamp of some sort
inside the breaker box to prevent anyone from accidentally yanking the
Romex out. One option would be to slip one of the one-way plastic spring
loaded NMSC clamps (the sort that usually go in a knockout) onto the
cable just where it comes up out of the conduit fitting.
Given that previous licensed electricians ran Romex exposed and
unprotected in other areas, I doubt anyone is ever going to get cranky
about whatever I do. However, I try to stick to code whenever possible,
and I'm at least curious as to exactly what the code might have to say
about something like this (if anything). It's a bit too peculiar for any
of my wiring books or the course I took years ago.
Thanks!
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
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Yes.
There is a standard conduit fitting that goes on the end of the conduit and provides a NM (Romex) type clamp. You run the NM cable up to the end of the conduit, and strip the NM jacket off for the length that will be in the conduit.
You will need to remover some of that wall paneling so that you can access the interior of the wall at the point where the NM will transition to EMT conduit. You can insert the conduit through a tightly sized hole in the top of the wall, install the NM connector on the end of the conduit from inside the wall, and then feed the wires from the NM up through the conduit, finishing with an inch or two of the NM jacket in the conduit and clamp the NM cable securely at the NM to EMT connector.
Reply to
Pete C.
I'll try. I'm assuming that since you're posting from an MIT alumni account, you're in the US; my comments apply to the US NEC only.
Code allows Romex to be either exposed or concealed.
The conduit is not required unless the cable is subject to physical damage.
A plastic bushing is required, yes.
Correct.
I don't think that's correct.
I guess. It's really not necessary, though.
As noted above, that's not a Code violation. Never has been. The Code explicitly permits Romex to be installed either exposed or concealed, and requires conduit only where it's subject to physical damage.
Hope I helped.
Reply to
Doug Miller
Whether it is necessary or not, I'd put the clamp on and strip the wire off the jacket that is in the conduit, as originally suggested. I had an inspector not like the fact I had the ground wire come out of the conduit with no termination on the end of the conduit. The only thing in the conduit was the ground wire to the water pipe.
I don't like the idea of running machines off of romex, personal choice. If your looking for ease I'd run greenfield (bx without the wire) and then pull the wire through that. They also have conduit to greenfield connectors.
Wayne D.
Reply to
Wayne
"Pete C." wrote in news:4c37ac6c$0$2131$ snipped-for-privacy@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:
That would work, the catch is that taking the wall apart is a nightmare. Because it is tongeue & groove, it's all interlocked like crazy. I removed a bunch in another part of the basement, and tried to save some for possible future use & repairs. No cigar. I was in a bit more of a rush, but if I could take the wall apart, I'd do the whole run in conduit. Boring an ovesized hole I can slip the clamp down through might be my best bet.
I thought the conduit fitting was only required if the Romex is exposed (that's how I've seen them in the past, but then I didn't think exposing Romex was to code either).
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in news:i18b64$val$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:
Yes, thanks! I guess the question is when is it "exposed to physical damage". That's a bit of a squishy call. It's in a coner of the basement, but it could get bashed if someone got really careless. Even if it isn't explicitely required, I'd feel better with it protected by some metal.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
FWIW, I wired my basement and ran EMT everywhere below the ceiling. I have plastic bushings in the top ends and the bottom ends, of course, are clamped into junction boxes.
The inspector approved. In fact, he was impressed, because I did some really fancy bending with the hickey to get everything lined up perfectly. Whether he was really adhering to code, I don't know.
Oh, where I forgot plastic bushings in a couple of places, I just split them down one side slipped them over the wire and inside of the tube, and turned the splits back against the wall so they couldn't be seen. d8-)
Reply to
Ed Huntress
Wayne wrote in news:qLOZn.6657$KT3.6197 @newsfe13.iad:
Thanks for the input. I thought about running BX, but snaking it through the wall would be a nearly impossible task. It's going to be enough fun doing it with Romex.
These aren't heavy duty machines. The mill & lathe are both 110V single phase, and lesss than 1 HP motors.
Stripping the wire in the conduit has also been mentioned by someone else. Is there any reason it can't be left in the jacket? It's only running ~ 10 inches to get through the conduit, and leaving the jacket on would provide a little extra protection where it comes out into the breaker box.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
Mount some plywood beneath the panel if it isn't there already, use romex connectors in the bottom of the panel, route the romex neatly and secure it with staples beneath the box, make a removable cover between the panel and the wall. When you use conduit to protect romex the conduit should stop short of the box/panel.
Reply to
ATP
"Ed Huntress" wrote in news:4c37c252$0$4979$ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net:
Sounds like some of the work I did in my old place. I have a collection of CAD drawings where I calculated the angles & dimensions to get the EMT bends just right. That was all going box to box, so I didn't have the issue I've got now. Regular bends weren't too bad. The thing I always hated was doing small offsets to get from a flat surface up & into a box.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
Yeah, I have around six or seven of those little offsets, and I put more effort into getting them just right than I should have. Nobody ever sees it except me.
Reply to
Ed Huntress
Doug, previous answers suggest that you can run romex in the open when not in danger of being harmed. I have a similar situation. Running from a panel up, on the surface of the wall until I am inside the ceiling. I simply ran the wire up the surface of the wall and covered it with "box" consisting of 1"x2" lumber on either side covered with a small piece of 1/2" plywood. Inspector had no problem. The wire was protected.
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
Ivan Vegvary
There's no reason to strip the jacket off, but the EMT shouldn't run straight into the box if you are running romex in it. BTW, with respect to a previous suggestion, Greenfield is not meant to be run in place of conduit, it is for whips running to motors that require flexibility.
Reply to
ATP
That's just silly. There's no reason at all to strip the jacket off of Romex cable before putting it in conduit. None. Zip. Nada.
Reply to
Doug Miller
That's just stupid. There's no reason at all to strip the jacket off. There's a common misconception that Romex isn't permitted in conduit. That simply isn't true; in fact, not only is Romex permitted in conduit, the NEC _explicitly requires_ putting it in conduit where necessary to protect it from physical damage. Nowhere does the NEC state, or even suggest, that one should strip the jacket from it.
I can't imagine where ideas like this get started.
Oh, baloney, he doesn't need to do anything of the kind. Unless the location is such that the cable would be subject to physical damage, he's perfectly OK just running the Romex exposed.
So don't do it. Pete doesn't know what he's talking about, and you shouldn't take electrical advice from him. [snip]
If it's required even under that circumstance, it's news to me.
Well, it is: "Type NM cable shall be permitted as follows: (1) for both exposed and concealed work in normally dry locations..." [2005 NEC, Article 334.10(A)] That's not new with the 2005 Code, either. The same language has been in the Code for decades.
Reply to
Doug Miller
They make offset fittings for doing just exactly that.
Reply to
Doug Miller
Nonsense. There's nothing at all wrong with running conduit all the way up to the box (with an appropriate fitting to secure the conduit to the box, of course).
Reply to
Doug Miller
Did you know that standard paintballs fit perfectly in 1/2 EMT? With your air compressor, 10' of conduit and a bag of paintballs, you can have a lot of fun with your neighbors. I only mention this because you probably don't get to do conduit work very often and you might as well make the most of it.
Reply to
Buerste
Really? No shit?
KOOOOOL!!!!!
Gonna have fun making ordnance!!!!
Gunner, pondering the delights of an automatic paintball gun with a 3' barrel
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch
Reply to
Gunner Asch
I shot out a window in the shop a while back. I had some ten year old paint balls...they get harder with age.
Reply to
Buerste

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