The youth of today!!!

That's not atheism you're talking about, Gunner. That's anti-theism. Most atheists today follow a basic tenet of science: if they aren't convinced of the evidence to believe in God, they don't think there's a reason to believe. Anti-theists, in contrast, believe in arguments against God's existence.

Many people, like you, apparently, confuse atheism with agnosticism. The original meaning of agnosticism is that the answer is not knowable. Most people who call themselves agnostics don't claim that the answer is knowable or not -- they just don't know it themselves. If they don't believe, they're atheists.

"Pete C." wrote in news:4bfad07f$0$6358$ snipped-for-privacy@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:

You exist therefore since you exist (1) on a planet (2) that is in orbit around a star (3) that orbits the center of a galaxy (4) that is part of a universe (5) that was created ~4.5 billion years ago then the Creator of that universe/galaxy/star/planet/life exists.

Whether or not you wish to "worship" or even acknowledge that Creator is your problem.

Sorry Pete, Ive never claimed that there is, or is not a god.

But you have proclaimed before all, that there is no god.

So get down to proving your claim like a good little boy and quit trying the usual buffoonery and diversons.

As I said...we will all be waiting with amused interest.

Gunner

OK, so who created that creator?

David

Why don't you favor us with a few specifics here. Which group of people have evolved so that some non-morphological traits have become prominent.

I contend that in ANY group of a significant number of individuals, you will find geniuses, dunces, athletes, warriors, scholars, patriots, traitors, prophets, apostates, devout and secular, and all shades in between.

Looks like Stuart is afraid to admit that various races have differences.

I wonder why?

Gunner

Ask Him, yourself.

I tried that when I was younger and still a bit naive.

No answer.

Not enough faith in Invisible Friends, I guess.

David

Its a pleasure to see kids trying to do something constructive.

Nevertheless, they'd better stay off my lawn!

Or not listening for the answer, because you were afraid of what it would be.

Hey Pete, I'm hearing Crickets here....

Surely you have a few non-racist examples...

C'mon, I'm just dying to hear about this.

Remember, THIS is what we are talking about:

You wrote.... What we need to *do* about it, is to get over the idea, entirely unsupported by science and the evolution of every other mammal on the planet, that humans are all alike and all have the same capacity for civilization, rational thought and non violence.

If god wants to talk to me, he'll make himself known.

He hasn't.

David

Sucks to be you, doesnt it?

Hell..I saw my mother 2 weeks after she died, 2700 miles away.

One of lifes little mysteries as they say.

Maybe He/She/It hasnt had anything to say to you.

Hell..Im about as close to being agnostic..and Ive asked "someone/something" for help...and its been granted..and more than once.

While Im not convinced..Im still very open towards the idea of a "God"..and probably lean more towards..than away.

Ive seen some seriously wierd shit in that department in my time.......

Gunner

Nah, I can sleep in on Sunday mornings.

OK by me.

I suspect there's something more out there, and that's faith addresses, I just have no use for the organized religion scam.

Me, too, a bit, hence "something more out there" but I'm not weak enough to ascribe it to invisible friends.

David

"David R.Birch" wrote in news:htli3801h9 @news7.newsguy.com:

So?

"Organized Religion" is a long-standing industry that operates all over the planet.

The industry provides rituals, souveniers, and other forms of entertainment such as TV Evangelists.

The primary function of the industry is to assist the individual to come to grips with the ultimate reality of Life - Death of the individual - and to enable the individual to face that reality with some measure of equanimity.

While, periodically, nations/states enact legislation that mandates that each citize/subject adhere to one or another of the multitude of religions, that is not true in the US.

Here, what you choose to believe is your business. After all, there are people who firmly believe in one or more of the following:

1. The Earth is as flat as a surface plate with acne. 2. The Moon Landings were faked. 3. "What's good for the Democrat Party is good for the Country." 4. Lee harvey Oswald shot John F. Kennedy. 5. Humans are the sole cause of "Climate Change". 6. US News outlets always tell the whole truth. 7. "If it's on TV it must be true!" 8. Richard Nixon was a crook. 9. John F. Kennedy signed most of the Civil Rights legislation.
2. The US Government always keeps its word.

Weak enough? Thats a very interesting phrase.

Speaks volumes.

Gunner

Gunner Asch on Thu, 27 May 2010 11:45:28 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

In deed. He's so strong, he needs no help at all.

Or thinks he does. I'm not so arrogant. ("You're not arrogant enough to be an Aries." "I don't have to be.") I'll even accept help from a Liberal, if they could provide real help.

Gunner Asch wrote:

Some people have no idea what is possible, mostly because of a small, closed mind. :(

I was working doubles, seven days a week when my mother died. I was struggling to get by on four hours sleep each night. I woke at the exact time she died, and knew she was gone. Sure enough, the phone rang a few minutes later. It was my sister and aunt who had stayed with her when I had to leave to get some sleep.

I was working as an engineer at an Orlando Christian TV station 20+ years ago. We were getting ready for our annual telethon. I had finished the temporary phone system in the studio and went out for lunch. I got busy in the shop checking all the spare equipment, since you don't have much spare time during a 24/7/12 event. fifteen minutes before it was to start I was alone on that end of the building when I heard a voice say, 'There is something wrong with the telephones'. I stepped into the hall, then into the studio and no one was around. I picked up a phone and it was dead. Five of our ten WATS lines were dead. I call AT&T Long Lines and was greeted by a foul mouthed, and very angry woman who informed me that she didn't care that my WATS lines were dead. I politely reminded her of the guaranteed response time in our contract, and that we had paid a $10,000 deposit on those lines. She screamed, "It's Friday afternoon, and quitting time. You'll be lucky if your dammed phones are working by next Friday! What the hell do you want me to do? Pull someone off another job for your damn problem?" I told her that I didn't care what she had to do, but our telethon started in about 12 minutes and I would hate to have to start it by telling our members, many who owned businesses in the Orlando area that AT&T Long Lines refused to honor our contract because we were a Christian TV station. Suddenly she got very quiet and whispered, "You wouldn't!" I said, "I'd hate to have to" and hung up. I looked at my watch and headed for the parking lot. Exactly seven minutes later a service truck rolled in. The tech was laughing as he asked if I had reported the trouble, then told me the entire dispatch office was afraid they would be fired on Monday. Over the next few minutes, six more trucks rolled in. They had sent people from every section, as well as the district field supervisor to make sure our service was restored. They found a dead SLIC that had five of the WATS lines on it. A new one was dug out of one of the trucks, and the phones were all working, with one minute to spare.

A couple years later some friends asked what I would do if I didn't have to worry about money. I told them that I had always wanted to build a radio or TV station, and preferably a Christian station. They all laughed. Two nights later I answered the phone and was asked if I wanted to be the 'Engineer Of Record' for a new TV station. I took the job. Then I dismantled and moved an old RCA UHF TV transmitter that was built the year and month I was born. A lot of the parts had my date of birth stamped on them. When it was time to set the fan on the water chiller I only had six volunteers. It took eight to side it out of the old site into the truck on a ramp, and they barely made it. The small group I had couldn't even tip up the short side, let alone lift it. They were ready to give up, when I had them join hands around it. I said a short prayer for help. Then we not only lifted it, but it went onto the guide pins on the first try.

I have had experiences like this my whole life. I feel sorry for those who have never heard 'A still, small voice' or had things like lifting that cooler happen to them.

I don't know where you got that, as I didn't say it. When I need help, should I pray for it to an Invisible Friend or ask a real visible one? Which will give a more useful result?

So being arrogant is the same as not being gullible?

David