Tire Chains

I had to walk 4 miles home one morning when I ran into clear ice on a hilly road. I couldn't get enough traction to even center the car on the crown of the road, everything I tried just kept me sliding off to the shoulder.

Sounds like things are horrible down in Texas from what I've been reading on the web.

Try to stay safe, some trips are not worth it, I speak from experience, I was in a head on collision in early december doing some optional Christmas shopping in bad weather and I know how to drive in winter.

Wes

copy that.

But when you do need them, you need them real bad! :)

Nah, he's just the pope of the church of warmingism.

Mother Nature is the most inexorable Denialist there is. ;-D

Cheers! Rich

So, if you buy a set of chains that will fit your car's tires, and don't need them for 19 years, but replace the car, can you trade in the old chains on ones that fit the new car?

Or are they sort of a "one-size-fits-all" kind of thing?

(I've obviously never used chains.)

Thanks, Rich

Chains are like a fire extinguisher, when you need one you need it bad, otherwise they are in the way.

John

aves one life,

o driving down an

But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. For the other

99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping distance. I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter where the farmers ran studs all year round. Two icy troughs on each side of the road, not so hot for driving. There's a reason they were banned except for emergency vehicles. So not that great an idea. If it's that bad out there, DON'T GO!

Stan

Chains are sized for the tire size, if the circumference remains the same, they can be used on different vehicles. In the Sierras, you could rent them on one side and return them on the other. If the tire size changes, you've got some scrap unless you can find another sucker to buy them. I scrapped several sets from the 50s and 60s when I cleaned out the grandparents' place. All for old skinny tire sizes that nobody uses anymore. And if you have rubber chain tighteners, after 19 years they'd be worthless anyway. Managed to collect a whole stack of new chain storage bags, too, another somewhat useless item these days. I use them for storing and handling lead ingots, work well for that.

Stan

everything I

in a head on

Things are much better today, it got above freezing this morning and has pretty much remained above freezing since then. I think it will be right near freezing tonight up here, but down in Dallas it will probably stay a degree or two above so things should be in decent shape tomorrow. I drove over to Ft. Worth and back today and the roads were pretty clear, just some ice on the shoulders mostly.

You really don't have a clt the differe betwe"weather" and "climate" do you.

Uh, yeah:

------ Definitions of climate on the Web:

• the weather in some location averaged over some long period of ^^^^^^^^^^^ time; "the dank climate of southern Wales"; "plants from a cold clime travel best in winter" * the prevailing psychological state; "the climate of opinion"; "the national mood had changed radically since the last election" wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

• Climate encompasses the statistics of temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, wind, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and numerous other meteorological elements in a given region over long periods of time. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate

• In viticulture, the climates of wine regions are categorized based on the overall characteristics of the area's climate during the growing season. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_(wine)

• An area of the earth's surface between two parallels of latitude; A region of the Earth; The long-term manifestations of weather and other atmospheric conditions in a given area or country, now usually represented by the statistical summary of its weather conditions during a period long enough ... en.wiktionary.org/wiki/climate

• climatic - of or relating to a climate; "climatic changes" wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

• Climates (?klimler) is the fourth feature film of the Turkish director Nuri Bilge Ceylan. The film focuses on relationships; charting the decline and possibility of renewal of a professional Istanbul couple, ?sa and Bahar, played by Ceylan and his wife Ebru Ceylan. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climates_(film)

• Climate is the average weather conditions at a particular place over a ^^^^^^^ long period of time. Climate is the long-term predictable state of the atmosphere. It is affected by physical features such as mountains, rivers, positioning of the globe, plateaus, deserts, depressions and much more. ... gei.newscorp.com/resources/glossary.html

• Between 75-86 degrees Fahrenheit (26-30 degrees Celsius) Averaging 81 degrees Fahrenheit (28 degrees Celsius) guampedia.com/about-guam/

• The general or typical atmospheric conditions for a place and/or period of time. Conditions include rainfall, temperature, thunderstorms, lightning, freezes, etc.
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• Typical mediterranean climate, with hot dry summers and warm wet winters. The average temperature is 18 degrees C. Snowfall is extremely rare, and approximately 148 days of the year are clear and sunny.
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• ?limatic data for each MLRA was derived by joining digital spatial maps of the MLRA boundaries with 1961-1991 climate data generated using PRISM (Parameter-elevation Regressions on Independent Slopes Model). ... soils.usda.gov/survey/geography/mlra/mlra_definitions.html

• the typical or expected (average) weather pattern, as opposed to the ^^^^^^^ actual weather at any given instant. ^^^^^^^ rredc.nrel.gov/solar/glossary/gloss_c.html

• meteorological conditions, including temperature, rainfall and wind, that characteristically occur in a particular region.
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• The prevailing or typical meteorological conditions and extremes of any place or region. gozowe.accountsupport.com/glossary.shtml

------ [emphasis mine]

Hope This Helps! Rich

=A0 =A0 ^^^^^^^

Rich, you are the living embodyment of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."

To try to distort a single snowy winter into a rejection of global climate change is to demonstrate a rather complete lack of understanding of what climate is and how weather works.

The studded tires I used in NH in the 70's weren't particularly great in snow and unmpressive on bare wet or dry pavement. The rubber compound seemed harder than on unstudded snow tires. They were on a Beetle that I ran on frozen lakes and snowmobile trails.

I really like these:

On ice they let my AWD CRV accelerate almost like on dry pavement. Braking is good but I don't push it, and cornering is adequate. They definitely have better forward than lateral traction due to the siping pattern. That vehicle understeers in a slide anyway, that plus the permanent AWD means I can't spin donuts.

They tend to float on deep slush, making the CRV slightly twitchy. I suspect a less stable vehicle might have trouble there.

jsw

It tends to support what you said.

Wes

Somewhat true, somewhat self-serving, as the use of studs amounts to blaming the state for failure to maintain safe roads. Skidding accidents around here happen mostly at low speeds and rarely cause serious personal injury, thus the statistical comparison isn't valid. Snowbanks make good soft guardrails.

Icing conditions were then and mostly still are unpredictable, so schools open and people drive to work expecting either a cold rain or snow & sleet. The last two ice storms that caused week-long power outages here were PREDICTED to be rain.

When I rode a motorcycle I had an excellent close view of the road surface and an incentive to dodge potholes, plus some connections to state decision-makers such as my father.

The rough ruts that studded tires cause were visible, however many potholes formed where pavement cracks crossed the higher areas beside the wheel tracks and may have been started by snowplow blades.

jsw

And white ice, and hard packed snow. Every winter spinout I've had was on ice. (all two of them). So, for instance, last time we lived in NH, and my wife was working 63 miles away in VT, we put studded snow tires on the 4WD vehicle. Since VT doesn't plow down to pavement, they end up with roads of packed snow and white ice... exactly the conditions that call for studs.

For the other > 99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping > distance. I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter > where the farmers ran studs all year round.

Most places that allow them do so only from Nov to Apr.

I've seen troughs in places that don't allow studs. Never seen it where it could be attributed to studs.

I'm glad they're not banned where they're a real advantage.

That is, of course, the best idea... but they don't close hospitals for bad weather.

Except when the snowbanks are at the bottom of 10' deep drainage ditches. No guard rails on those secondary roads and the plows just took off the snow on top, no way were they going to get to the bottom of those ruts. Buncha folks ended upside down in the ditch after a few freeze-thaw cycles. Potholes were generally patched pretty quickly, but repaving waited for many years until the county had money in the road budget. The state took care of the interstates and state highways, the rest of the back roads were county problems. I believe the Iowa DOT made their own study before the legislature passed the ban, was sometime in the early '70s, IIRC. Before that, kids were buying studded snow tires because it made it a lot easier to lay a patch. My cousin used to do that, usually ended up throwing half the studs after a week with the new rubber.

Stan