Tool boast!


Garage sale. Allen-Bradley 3 phase motor controller (starter). New, never
used. $ 5.00 !!!!!!
Not as good as Iggy, buy I still feel fortunate.
I asked this group some 2 years ago on whether I can substitute a single
phase starter for a 3 phase (3 horse power) pedestal grinder. My thinking
was that in case of power outage at least two of the three power leads would
be disconnected, leaving me safe. You all said that I am NUTS!!
Well I've waited and finally scored.
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
Ivan Vegvary
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great deal!
what is the control voltage?
Reply to
Ignoramus18915
Do these have built-in current limiting breakers? When your motor draws too much current on one or more phase, they will open the control circuit for your starter.
Paul
Reply to
co_farmer
Iggy, as always, thanks for your interest. Model no. of the control is 609-AAW3. At 208-240 volts, 3 phase, it is rated for 3 horsepower. Here is a link to the model.
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Of course mine comes in a metal mounting box with appropriate lock-outs. Iggy, there's all sorts of literature about 'heaters'. I have no idea about what they speak. I assume that I am getting an on-off switch that is magnetic (holds on as long as power is applied) and trips in case of power failure. If that is not what I purchased .... oh well, it was only $ 5.
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
Ivan Vegvary
"heaters" are mica posts wound with resistance wire. They are in series with the wire feeding each phase input...IE there are 3 of them and the motor wiring goes through them from the power supply.
When any one of them draws too much power..they heat up and cause a bimetal switch to open up, stopping power to the motor.
Its a "fuse", but one that is resettable. Think of it as a circuit breaker..which indeed it is. Some "heaters" are replaceable with smaller or larger values so if you need to have it trip at less amps, you use a smaller set, or at more amps..a larger set.
Very simple, nearly universal in use in virtually all "heavy" machinery.
Since the average "fuse" for machinery costs from $5-30 EACH..having something reliable and resetable is very important. Particularly when you have 3 fuses in each machine.....
Gunner
"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9
Reply to
Gunner Asch
O.K. The "control voltage" does not apply here. This is a purely mechanical switch. The starters for which a "control voltage" apply are:
1) A three-phase contactor (think relay on steroids). The coil voltage is the "control voltage" in question. It can be AC or DC, and totally different from the *controlled* (switched) voltage.
2) Heat coils through which the current to the load flows.
3) Adjacent to the heat coils are switches which are held closed by linkages which will release when they get hot enough.
The heat coils are matched to the nominal current of the load so the switches won't get hot enough to open under normal conditions, but if the motor stalls, or a winding opens, or any of a number of other problems occur, the contacts open.
If you rewire the motor from one voltage to another, the heat coils need to be replaced to match the changed current the motor will draw. (E.g. it will draw about half the current if you rewire from 240 VAC to 480 VAC, or will about double if you rewire from 480 VAc to 240 VAC.)
4) An extra set of contacts on the contactor (hold contacts) in (1) above which will apply power to the coil as long as the relay is closed. This coil power also flows through the switches by the heat coils. So -- if any one of the heat switches opens, the coil drops out, and power is removed from the motor.
5) Two pushbuttons -- one normally closed (Start button) which is wired in series with all the heat coil switches and the contactor "hold" contacts which can be used to stop the motor by dropping out the relay.
And one normally open pushbutton (Stop button) which is wired in parallel with the "hold" contacts on the contactor. Pushing this will apply power to the coil and pull in the contactor contacts to apply power to the motor -- as long as none of the heat coil switches is open. (And, as long as you aren't holding the stop button with the other hand. :-)
Described above. They do not apply to what you got.
I don't see any clues that it may also be a circuit breaker, so I think that is just a plain high-current three phase switch.
Nope -- as far as I can see, there is no magnetic feature in this, just purely mechanical.
And it at least switches power off to all three wires at once, so you don't have the winding hot when you start to work on it. (Of course, you should unplug it anyway. :-)
I don't think that you need the magnetic feature for a grinder assuming that if the power goes out, you at least remember to push the "Off" button before going out to see whether you can reset the breaker and restore power, or whether you are at the mercy of the power company. (Hitting that "Off" button does require seeing it -- which is one of the reasons that I always keep a 3-LED flashlight (size of a Mini-MagLite) on my belt.
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
Thanks Gunner and DoN. Nichols for the lesson! Good explanation.
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
Ivan Vegvary
Did DoN and I actually agree on something?
Gunner
"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9
Reply to
Gunner Asch
...
...
In 5), looks like (Start button) and (Stop button) should be interchanged. Ie, first paragraph is about Stop button, other is about Start.
Reply to
James Waldby
Actually -- sometimes they play it cheap and only put them on two of the three wires. The third is straight through.
They won't trip anyway if you are just a little over current. If you are far enough over current to be a problem, at least one of the two will be seeing enough current from that third wire so it will trip anyway.
Of course, the contactor will open all three power wires even if there are only two heaters.
Sometimes they are instead a ratchet wheel with hardened wax as lubricant, and when it gets hot enough to melt the wax, the wheel turns and releases a spring lever to open the circuit. The bimetal switch has the advantage of being self-resetting, while the "wax lube and ratchet" style requires you to open the housing and note which one tripped and needs to be reset. This information might be useful if there are frequent nuisance trips. :-)
There may be yet more techniques for the heaters to do their job. The ratchet and wax design was used in certain phone line circuitry to disconnect the user's line if it started getting too much current pumped through it (e.g. little Johnny plugged the phone wire into the 120 VAC outlet. :-)
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
[ ... ]
It can happen on technical issues. Probably never happen on political ones. :-)
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
The OmniTurn CNC lathe used a similar heater, but it used a very low temperature alloy that melted and allowed the ratchet to spin, opening the 2 servo feed lines that ran each servo motor. I noted that the last couple lathes I installed, used a more (cheap) traditional breaker switch as might be found in an electronic assembly.
Gunner
"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9
Reply to
Gunner Asch
You're right! I went back and added the labels towards the end of editing -- and must not have paid enough attention.
Thanks for catching it, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
But of course!
Viva la Differance!!
Gunner
"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9
Reply to
Gunner Asch
This is an awesome starter. I had this one mounted on my old lathe.
i
Reply to
Ignoramus28671
The contactor I have on my Harrison L5 has three 'heaters' one on each phase, these each heat their own bi-metal strip that moves a bar, the bar is attached to a cam which then moves a (spring loaded) lever off from a contact, the power to the electromagnet is through that contact so when the bar moves enough, power to the electromagnet is cut and the machine shuts down. As soon as the bi-metal cools it 'resets' and the machine can be turned on again.
It can be adjusted from IIRC 10A down to 0.3A by moving a lever attached to the cam.
Very simple and hardly anything to go wrong.
and they have been in use for at least 60-70 years too, I'm pretty sure mine was original equipment on a lathe which was made in the 40's. Even though I've converted to a new motor with a VFD I've kept the contactor (although I replaced the (few) pieces of wiring in mine as a piece of mind measure), works perfectly fine with just single rather than 3 phase too!
Druid
Reply to
Druid
The item shown in the image at the link provided below, is a mechanical starter with the combined feature of over-current protection for the motor.
The 3 pockets/wells below the red stop button (with 3 additional pairs of screws, above and below the wells) are where the heaters are installed.
Most enclosed starters which are furnished inside a suitable box, have labels with a chart for selecting the correct heater currents, based upon the line voltage and desired/chosen load.
Over-current/overload heaters/protectors react faster than a motor's internal thermal protection (if a particular motor even has a thermal protection device, 3-phase motors typically don't).
The heater protection feature in the starter will save a motor if the equipment experiences a jam, bearing failure or other excessive mechanical load which causes a rise in the motor's current draw.
The correct heater current rating will be greater than the run/idling current of the proposed grinder application, since the motor's current draw will rise when actual grinding is taking place. Heaters are selected to cause the starter to hold at normal load current demands, and to open quickly at higher load demands (faults).
Some starter heater devices are mechanical (such as those I see shown below the starter image) and others just look like a numbered, bare strip of formed metal, which cause temperature-sensitive components within the starter to react.
Many single-phase machine motors only have internal temperature protection (cheaper motors usually don't), which in many cases, won't protect the motor in the event of a sudden jam or other fault that causes an excessive current draw. With properly-selected heaters in an over-current protection starter, the machine will be stopped before motor damage occurs.
Reply to
Wild_Bill

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