Tool Terms

A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories
associated with lathes and milling machines?
The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does.
I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret" and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons, and any terms associated with their use.
In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from browsing catalogs.
If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info.
Thanks a lot.
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Would you like fries with that? :-)
GWE
snipped-for-privacy@mail.con.com wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Grant Erwin wrote:

Naw, just a shake would be fine. I'm on a diet... :-)
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They're called "tool catalogs..."
Jerry
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    O.K. For that one -- you might try to get the _Machine Shop Practice_ by Moultrecht. It is a two volume book, which is occasionally offered on sale by MSC (where I got mine), and other places.
    This will also cover an overview of turret tooling, covering things like a "roller box tool" and a "Geometric die head".
    And -- it will show the powered turret lathes as well -- where the turret derives power from the leadscrew, just as the carriage cross-slide does.
    Note that you will *not* find a bed turret for the machine which you were considering last I knew. They tend to be for semi industrial machines, including my 12X24" Clausing, which came with a bed turret which matched the serial number of the lathe -- they came from the factory together. I had to chase down a standard tailstock to use with the lathe for non-production operations.

    Things like the quick-change toolposts may not be well covered, because the nicest ones are a bit too new to have been well covered by the book in question.

    You could try getting that pair from the library, or try to spot them on eBay, or order them from MSC or some other tool vendor.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Look for a copy of Audel's Machinists and Tool Makers Handy Book. My copy is from 1941. It has illustrated pictures of many machines with the parts identified and then much info on how to set them up and run them. Go visit the library or a used book store an hunt up some of the older machinery books. It won't tell you about CNC and not much about the modern quick change toolposts but it will go a long way for you. Glenn

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Machinery's Handbook! Bugs
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to get that soon.
I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to do, ect.
After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or "draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then taps are a whole other issue.
I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else.
One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it.
I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at.
Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-)
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    [ ... ]

    Try this page (assuming that it will work after I close my browser):
    http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO06668&PMT4NOG13402
(It appears to work.)
    Scroll down until you see the images. You should see a square collet block, a hexagonal collet block, two threaded rings for closing collets (there are no collets there, you will need to buy at least the sizes which you expect to use), and a hand lever assembly for quickly tightening and releasing the collets instead of having to tighten the rings more slowly.
    You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block, clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides.
    The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g. bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if that is what is needed.
    This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for. You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current "Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size (the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets. The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least. The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that grade.

    A drawbar is a part of a milling machine, or a lathe fitted with collets. You are unlikely to find them listed separately, and once you have a lathe, you can make most styles as you need them.

    An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode, though some small ones could be adapted.
    There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is "dividing head".

    The MSC catalog, again.

    Most indicators are better for showing how well centered a part is than for measuring precisely. A plunger style dial indicator, mounted on a proper stand, can be used to compare something to a set of gauge blocks to get the best measurement. Normally, for measuring OD, you want a good micrometer set of sufficient range. For ID measurement, unless you have a mint handy, you will want to get a set of telescoping gauges (again see the MSC catalog).

    I lose count of how many pages dedicated to taps are in the MSC catalog. :-)

    I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are *not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes there, and neither is of use to you at present.
    The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer" does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed indicator", which is no practical use to you.

    Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won".
    Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target market.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it).

Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six).

I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod.

I hope to receive an MSC catalog soon. I think I received an e-mail that the catalog was unavailable the first time I tried.(At least I think it was MSC).
Thanks for the info on collets and collet blocks. I assume that there is a solution for 360 divisions. I'll definitely need that option for future projects.(One of which will include making gears).

Great. BTW. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID"24 http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID#74

I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is possible.

Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-(

That's good to hear.

I feel better that I didn't miss out on an opportunity so close by.

Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person pick-ups.

He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at one of those places).
Thanks.
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'll try it again.. These 5C collets holding the work can be mounted in the chuck or in the spindle with the tool at the conventional location of the tool post.
Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in an end mill holder in the spindle instead.

Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.

I would have bid over $100 for these but at the time I didn't know if it was the round 5C collets that I needed:

It would be nice to have some sort of low profile, H/V 90 degree tilting, indexing rotary table(with small vice or chuck-like jaws at the perimeter) mounted to the compound slide that would have the ability to extend the cross feed travel to at least half of the swing so one can easily drill or mill opposite sides of a 7" diameter work piece. :-)
Actually, a power-feeding assembly option to replace the tailstock might work better than if put on the compound slide.(But that would be some major modification). :-)
All of this would entail drilling *from* the head stock. I haven't read anything about that, so I hope that is plausible.
Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-)

As it turns out he is a she. I won a little something and will swing by there to pick it up.
Thanks.
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    I thought that I had posted something in response to the previous one -- but I can't find it in the thread map now, so I guess that it got lost somehow.
    Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle.

    With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck -- whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck.

    And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and apparently lost somehow.

    All the 5C collets are round on the outside. There are ones with holes to hold hexagonal or square workpieces -- but your workpieces are round, and you are trying to make a square on the one, IIRC.

    It -- *could* -- if there are provisions for plates of holes to use in indexing. Some rotary tables have that feature, some don't.

    This sounds like something which you will have to *make*. And, I think that you will need bigger machines to make it.

    Some lathes, such as my 12x24" Clausing, have power cross-feed. And of course, the compound has power axial feed (along the bed), which can be used for some operations other than turning. I particular, the Myford lathes tend to have multiple T-slots along the length of the cross-slide, for mounting workpieces or special tooling directly to the cross-slide. But -- Myfords are from the UK, are quite expensive, and probably too heavy to get up your stairs (though maybe close).

    You mean running the drill bit in a holder in the spindle, and moving the workpiece towards it? This is done on the cross-slide T slots (on the Myfords and other machines with that capability), or with a crotch holder in the tailstock to crank the hand-held workpiece into the rotating drill bit.

    Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them.
    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators".
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, I've seen the Bisons. But you originally recommended the 5C collets, so I assume that is because the size(3/4") I mentioned I wanted to work with would require the 5C type.

I'm going to try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemu92207825
Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches.
Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that really means little on a set up like that.

Hmmm. It definitely didn't show up on Google Groups(or Interbulletin). It must have vanished somewhere in the chain *before* it reached the newsgroups.

With no tooling yet I'd have to wait. I don't want to start this first project, and have to stop and do more research to determine what I am missing so I can continue.

She didn't seem like the type that you could explain that too. :-)
BTW. Just to give you an idea of where I'm at. The following is my list of things to get.(At least most of them). The items with question marks are things I haven't decided on yet and still researching. The one's with the asterisks are pretty much decided upon.
Tool Post * AXA QC(Wedge Style))
Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible) * A) Turning holder * B) Facing * C) Boring holder * D) Cut-off(Parting) holder * E) Threading(Inside/Outisde) holder * F) 5C Collet Tool Holder * G) Morse Taper Tool Holder * H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder? I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder?
Lathe Tools(Indexable where possible) * A) Facing * B) Turning * C) Boring(3/8) * D) Threading(Outside) * E) Threading(Inside) * F) Cut-off(Parting)? G) Grooving? H) Chip Breaker? I) Tool ground? J) Trepanning tool? K) Fly cutter? L) Radii Cutter? M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)?
End Mill Holder(For MT3 spindle)
Milling Tools(Indexable where possible) * 2 Flute End Mill? * 1/4" Ball-End Mill? Face Mill? Boring head & shank? End Mill Grinding Fixture?
5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck? * 5C Collets(round) * 5C Collet Blocks(4 & 6)? * 5C Collet Chuck 5C Collet stops? 2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK?
* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). * Morse Taper Sleeve 3MT to 2MT * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Face Plate * MT2 Live Ball Bearing Center * Drill chuck & Arbor(2MT to 33JT) * Center Drills #1,2,3,4,5 * T-Slot Cleaners * Chucking Reamers * 60 Degree Center Reamer Set 5" 4-Jaw Chuck(w/adaptor)? lathe Dog?
Milling Attachment?
Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates?
* Micrometer * Telescoping gauges * Run-out indicator Protractor Angle Gauge Set Depth Gauge Divider Machinists Scriber Trammel
Tapping(Tapper) Wrench? Die? Bench Block? + ? Hand Reamers? Cutting/Tapping fluid?
Bandsaw? Bench Grinder?
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish milling a square on a workpiece without an index head.
    I *know* that they will not fit your lathe directly, and I feel that a Bison collet chuck may not be steady enough on such a small spindle, as it sticks way out where it is more subject to chatter from the spindle flexing.

    I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip for that amount of extension.

    That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting only once.
    I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too bad. :-)
    [ ... ]

    It may have been in the e-mail which was trying to go to an old and no longer good e-mail address -- which you *still* have in your newsgroup "From: " header.

    You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make. Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more things which you may need to do them.

    Sigh!
    Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height properly.

    The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small.

    Typically, the turning and facing holders are pretty much the same. The boring ones will have a V bottom groove to hold round shanked boring bars. (And the larger ones will be made to hold even larger boring bars -- I think up to 7/8" for the AXA series. I know that I can hold 1" ones in my BXA holders.

    Yes. Add in a T-profile paring tool to go in that holder. Cobalt steel. The "Mo-Max brand is what I use. Expensive, but good.

    Those are the same as the boring/facing holders. (Though the tooling which goes in them is different.)

    Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills, you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your lathe spindle's taper.
    For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle.

    O.K. As above.

    They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use the same drill chuck in there.

    Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading. You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or internal threading.

    The tools are the same -- other than the angle. Look at the Aloris AXA-16N, which will hold two triangular carbide inserts, one for turning and one for facing in the same holder. I have the BXA equivalent and use it much of the time. Because of the 'N' in the part name, it accepts negative rake insert tooling, which is available with a groove which lets you actually use it as positive rake tooling in the negative rake holder. This gives you six corners which you can use before replacing the insert Rotate it for three, then flip it over. (Assuming that you have not broken the insert with a crash.)

    Insert tooling for D and E, and maybe for C.
    Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones.

    I've given my advice above with the holder.

    You can do some of this with the parting tool, as long as it is not too narrow.

    Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit which you grind yourself.

    You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.)

    Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for a given need.

    For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task.

    Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most of them aren't the right size for your machine.

    I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce nasty sharp chips.

    Several -- for the different sizes of end mills which you need to use.

    2 flute for milling slots, among other things.

    For special shaping, or half-round bottomed grooves.

    *Not* with a lathe acting as a milling machine. Those take a *lot* of power. Probably not with *any* milling machine which you can get up to your apartment.

    Again -- better used with a true milling machine, rather than in a lathe. For boring on a lathe, you normally mount the workpiece in a chuck, or on a faceplate, and turn it, while boring.

    Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not, the fixture won't do you any good.

    These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present.

    Yes -- for milling square or hex shapes.

    Perhaps -- for light work with larger workpieces.

    Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't work well with the collet block.

    I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity.
    ?

    O.K.
    Good.
    Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't.

    O.K.
    Do you have any T-slots yet? Until you get a milling machine, you probably don't need this -- and if you *do* need it, you need one to fit your T-slots on your mill. They come in different sizes.

    ???
    O.K. Large but it should fit the machine.

    Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.

    If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a machine of similar size.

    Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get.

    A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you really are able to machine with your equipment.

    This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.
BTW    Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider     class tools.

    Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid breaking small taps.

    Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the lathe.)

    How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw, and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.
    Good luck,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Nichols says...

As an aside, the following is a very nice project for new machine owners: 3C collet blocks.
Starting with hex, or square CRS stock, one bores out for a 3C collet to fit, including the taper on the working end. Press in a small pin, and fabricate the nut and pin wrench to tighten things up.
Of course they should be heat-treated and ground, but for most hobby work simple CRS stock as supplied works just fine. The essence of the project BTW (aside from producing usefull tooling) is learning to indicate and bore the hole and taper accurately with respect to the outer dimensions of the stock.
I've still got mine, from my 9" SB model A days.
Jim
--
==================================================
please reply to:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    That sounds like an excellent project. And maybe 3C would even fit his lathe (with a proper spindle nose adaptor). But, IIRC, 3C maxes out at 1/2" maximum grip diameter, which is not large enough for the workpiece, IIRC.

    Nice!
    Thanks,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, I didn't think I'd win it looking at the ended auctions. I bid low because I figuerd that anything that is supposed to be held in the chuck taht way couldn't be the best solution.
Now, I 'm looking at a 5" 4-Jaw, because I still need to be able to turned those 4-1/2" square plate I mentioned.

Here it is:
" Picture trying to hold an odd side count object in a vise. The same for a wrench. About the only thing that I know of which commonly has five sides is the fittings on fire hydrants, so normal wrenches won't work on them, and only people with the right special wrench can turn them on or off. :-)"
Though I guess it would only be worth it for high production, if one had a collet vise where one of the two jaws were flat and the other angled at 72 degress to clamp the opposite two sides of the collet block it would work. Better yet, an insert on one side with that proper angle would allow use of a normal vise.(If I could draw ASCII and have it come out correctly, I;d illustrate it).

Perhaps I could use this time working on the lathes tolerance/accuracy (Of course I'd have to get those gauges in a hurry).

??? I was just about to bid on this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemu93068191
But I'm not sure about the "modified compound" you mention.

Ok. I was stuck on 5/16" because that is what they say the size is for the OEM tool post of my lathe(which I will be getting rid of). I guess it's besst to shoot for 1/2".(5/8 & 3/4" is the sizes for the boring tool holder).
So here goes.(Not taking into account any tool holders that may already come with the tool post I buy).
A) Turning/Facing/ Threading(outside)/Threading(inside) B) Boring C) Cut-off/ T-profileparing

So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to use for light work at least).
I'm also investigating expanding and step collets. Sigh.
BTW. "F) 5C Collet Tool Holder" was a referrence to a tool holder for the tool post.
(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)

"G) Morse Taper Tool Holder" also refers to a *tool post* tool holder.

Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?

Crashes?
Ok. Let's see. Forget the Universal and just use a thick parting tool in the cut-off tool holder for grooving, correct?

I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been eye-balling "cheap" sets of insert tooling on eBay.

I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is.

Will do.

I didn't know what this was either until you mentioned it when we were discussing making a circular "trench" in stainless steel..

That's what I was thinking.

If I could find it, it would probably be too expensive. And it's probably better to just but those ball knobs than to try to turn 303 stainless to get them.

D is a ball end, and A is a cylindrical"no cut" end.(But I'mthinking I won't need these).

The 2 Flute end mill will be indexable, but I'd still have to figure out a way to sharpen the ball end mill.

Since it doesn't index, I don't either.

So I guess I won't really have a use for collet stops.(Even if I get another set of collets(3C) for work holding in the spindle).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&itemu91760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe")

You mean the rests? Outside of change gears, this lathe(which I think is the costliest of it's type) came with very little.(I guess they figured that the extra 2 inches in length and the digital read-outs were enough).

I'll hold off on the chucking reamers. I have to learn more about manual reaming anyway so I can make those tin holes in little rods.
And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in the smae shape as the tail stock center.

And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for.

I'm told that the OEM isn't worth it and that it is best to just make my own attachment with an angle plate of some sort.

Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin), and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design.

Actually, I already have one of those, which magnifier, blades, ect..

Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.

Ok. Thanks.

I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from 1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals with the nomenclature.

Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-)
The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful).
Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned.
Thanks a lot.
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
    I'm going to skip over some of this, because I am way behind in newsreading, and I expect to be away form home helping a friend replace the spindle in his lathe most of tomorrow, which would make things worse. I'll answer this one, and skip over whatever other ones you post.
    [ ... ]

    O.K.
    [ ... ]

    You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian" machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the like.
    This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not.

    The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline.
    [ ... ]

    I'll be skipping over most of this.
    [ ... ]

    Yes!
    The expanding ones are mostly available in watchmaker's lathe sizes. The same for pre-made step collets, though there are soft collets designed to be machined to make custom sized collets. But these latter are typically 5C size -- so again you are out of luck.

    I've not seen a 5C tool holder for even a BXA sized toolpost, let alone a AXA sized one.

    Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your lathe and its capabilities.

    [ ... ]

    Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time you use them which I mentioned before.

    Unintended contact of moving parts with stationary parts of the lathe -- with the workpiece involved or not involved. An example is when the carriage moves close enough to the chuck so it gets hit by the jaws. Sometimes, it is just harmless nicks, sometimes it is serious damage to the machine.
    And sometimes, it is simply feeding too aggressively for the insert tooling and thus breaking the tooling.
    The problems with inside threading and boring is that you can't see the cutting edge during most of the task, so you have a greater chance of it hitting something which you don't want.

    A thin one can be used in multiple passes, and is less load on the machine's motor.

    I was afraid of that.

    Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one. It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise, you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of the flavors which will make the nasty ones.
    [ ... ]

    O.K.
    [ ... ]

    The good ones are too big for your machine. And will probably put too much of a load on it. And stainless would be a real pain to make the balls from. Pay someone else who does it for a living, and use your time for something easier.
    [ ... ]

    An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you.
    [ ... ]

    *Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any more.
    Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever.
    It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag base drill, not a lathe.

    The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well.

    :-)
    [ ... ]

    That is the function normally performed by the center drills. (Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision grinder, but not for normal lathe work.

    O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock). This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut.
    [ ... ]

    Note that the typical index plates are designed for different gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are 20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make.
    [ ... ]

    O.K. That should suffice.
    [ ... ]

    Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC.
    [ ... ]

    Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult.
    The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just a little oversized.

    But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to your lathe -- or heavier.

    :-)
    So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for what you intend to do with it.
    And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough guess.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes. I'll be following the advice at the mini-lathe pages.

Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25).

Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186

It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up).

I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that holder.

I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal.

Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3 flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless steel. I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes. Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop.

Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier.

I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank.

Yes. I'll be getting only the items that I have to get from Micro-Mark.

Ok. I'll just stick with getting over/under hand reamers where needed.(And just line the center drill up with the tail stock center).

Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-)

My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end mills I'll need will be for gear cutting).
BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#)
And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay broken.(So I'll wait).

I'll be using a ruler. :-)

I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those numbers under 1/4". Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4 inches).

Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread correctly.

600?!?
What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?
Thanks a lot.
Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
    O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail.
    *Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings. Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be wasting my time.

    *Now*!
    No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike most larger (and some smaller) lathes.
    So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which you purchase.
    There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of what comes with the modified compound.

    Hmm ... you note that it is intended to fit a 5C lathe spindle socket? And the only way *you* can provide a 5C socket is with this thing which you already got from eBay. And the only way to hold *that* is in a three-jaw or 4-jaw chuck on the lathe's spindle. There seems to be little point to getting a chuck to hold in a chuck via an adaptor. :-)
    Granted, people have held much smaller lathe chucks for tiny workpieces in gigantic lathe chucks, but the size of *this* chuck is one which is probably already available for your lathe spindle.
    I have one of those, which I use sometimes when the lathe is set up for collets, and I want to work on a small workpiece and don't want to heave around the heavy larger chucks for my lathe. But mine is set up for 5C collets.
    Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as you think it is. :-)

    Regular for that. Probably regular for whatever you're going to be doing. Save on buying the good ones until you have a machine which can benefit from them.

    They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap under power in my lathe, but:
1)    It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center.
2)    I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret.
    When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the     holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in     the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin     freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap     out of the just made threads.
    You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that     your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for     this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course.

    Yes. You may have the trash pickup people really mad at you, and you *may* be violating some ordinance where you live if you toss metal turnings into the general trash.

    O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller diameter first.

    Yes.
    I mean the shank, which is a Morse taper to fit the spindle in the mag base drill (or at least in *some* mag base drills), and the other end is designed to hold the Rotabroach.
    Yes -- it can be used to fit a Rotabroach to a lathe spindle, though I'm not sure about the torque available from your lathe spindle for running a Rotabroach in stainless steel.

    O.K.
    Individual reamers as you need them -- unless you luck into a nice price on eBay -- and can be sure that they are in good condition. *Don't* bid on a batch of loose reamers. They have almost certainly been beating against each other and have dulled the edges. If they are in individual tubes, or in a roll-up tool pouch, the chances are better.
    And *never* run a reamer backwards in the hole. It breaks down the edges very quickly.

    Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which also play a role in deciding.

    Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to select the number of positions available.
    And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000 (long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you had to buy the others as accessories.
    You'll have to look on eBay for these, and beware that the pricing on the Unimat stuff has started into "collector's item" range.
    The only thing found on eBay at the moment with a search on "emco index head" is:
        7594760412
which is probably too big for your purpose, but which is a very nice one, with a rather unusual 4-jaw universal chuck -- that is, the jaws move inward at the same rate, just like a 3-jaw. That might be very nice for mounting on your lathe for turning truly square plates -- except that I don't see the outside grip jaws for it.

    O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-)

    The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about those giving way in some of the import milling machines.

    For scribing a circle?
    [ ... ]

    Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws.
    Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_.
    Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote some time ago:
=====================================================================> number-screw 3 56 For a #3-56.000 screw: Clearance diameter: 0.099 Tap drill diameter: 0.081 ===================================================================== And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to the number size. :-)

    Mine is a 3" one, IIRC. Made by Starrett.

    Yes -- if your *machine* is rigid enough to cut the threads correctly.
    [ ... ]

    Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless.

    The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other side is rather limited.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
P.S.    I'm getting to dread weekends, since that is when I get hit by     several of your long postings.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.