Your Grandfather's Apprenticeship

Grandfather was a Kentucky hill boy, born in 1900, whose family owned the local corn mill. There was virtually no paper currency and very
little hard money, so the local economy was based upon the barter of corn. This made the family much like the local banker, and they became well to do by that standard of exchange. Rather than having to hoe the family tobacco, grandfather had the option of choosing trade, and at the age of thirteen, apprenticed himself to the local blacksmith. By the time he was in his early twenties, Grandfather had the reputation of being able to make and build anything out of metal. Hearing of this ability, Harvey Firestone came and hired Grandfather out of the blacksmith's shop and took him to Ohio, where the first tire building machine was constructed in Firestone's garage. But, Grandfather's apprenticeship never ended; he went on to establish seventeen manufacturing plants in the US, three in Europe, and established the rubber plantations in India and Southeast Asia. Today, D-line at the Des Moines plant, now owned by Bridgestone, still utilizes ten machines hand built by my Grandfather. My own father was the leading light of the national rubber workers union, until it was busted. The ethic of apprenticeship, which is the subject of my dissertation, is well founded in this story. Until the last few generations, the bond between father and son, grandfather and grandson, was cemented in the love of sharing the knowledge and understanding of their craft...through the daily experience of honest labor. An acquaintance, a seventh generation woodcarver, said it best. "If I tell you it's Chippendale, it's Chippendale...not because of conformity to design...but because I use the same tool and the same technique that I learned from my grandfather, who learned from his grandfather, who learned from his grandfather...who was there. What was your grandfather's trade?
LivingTrade.org http:/groups.google.com/group/senior-apprentice
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says...

Well, my great-grandfather was apprenticed to the railroad. Here's his indenture document:
<
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/indenture.jpg
It's a large photo so dial-ups beware....
He went on to manage all the rolling stock for that outfit. Just reading the document brings some flavor to the time.
My grandfather did paintings for pulp magazine covers.
Jim
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Tool and die maker at Reo, then Oldsmobile
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My grandfather put his nose to the grindstone and started his own sawmill in Canada.
When he recognized the opportunity, he moved his entire family to the USA. My mother was the youngest at 18-years-old.
He then started his own contracting firm building houses.
No apprenticeships.......
Anybody who believes that apprenticeships have a snowball's chance of returning is woefully out of touch with the labor industry.
Apprenticeships worked with cradle-to-grave employment - the sortsn of thing where somebody worked 40 years at the same place and got a gold watch at retirement. There was a modicum of loyalty on both sides.
The term "loyalty" is not a part of the vocabulary of today's American worker.
They'll do an apprenticeship at one place, then jump ship at the first opportunity at 50-cents-per-hour more.
Who can blame companies for NOT investing in apprenticeships? Why train workers for your competition?
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Apprenticeship needs to evolve into an academic environment with a cognitive approach that is centered upon the material, rather than an employer's job of work. Industry is the snowball...
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Same response you gave me above.....containing the same educational jargon and puffery.
You must either work in education or some sort of union.
Go on downtown to the clue store and buy one or two....
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* wrote:

I swung a hammer for forty years. I employed and trained hundreds of carpenters...and worked side by side with hundreds more. Apprenticeship is a solution that addresses many of the social ills of our day; but clues are where you find them. If you have one, I would like to hear it. Read my essay, 'Apprenticeship for our Future' at:
LivingTrade.org http:/groups.google.com/group/senior-apprentice
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jargon

Naw!
Tell the truth.......
You're just SPAMMING here to gain support for a union activity that is on its deathbed - apprenticeships....
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* wrote:

Union apprenticeship is OJT. There is no valid or relevent union apprenticeship today. Ten years ago, I worked as a union cabinetmaker. I was assigned to build two projects that by union standard took twelve man-weeks of labor; I accomplished the task in two weeks, and was fired because I did not fit in... You have me completely wrong.
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If it WALKS like a duck......
If it QUACKS like a duck......
If it SMELLS like a duck.........
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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* wrote:

And all you've contributed is a lot of quacking...
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And, NOBODY'S been able to figure out exactly WHAT - if anything - YOU are contributing......other than shilling for a union-based activity - apprenticeship.
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* wrote:

There is no deception in my words. Are you the union shill trying to deceive others out of thinking for themselves? Apprenticeship is a missing ingredient that addresses many of today's social ills, like joblessness and homelessness. Apprenticeship is an education, that allows the individual to stand on his own two feet, without being relient upon an employer or a union to secure meaningful work for himself. I appreciate all your quacking; it provides a forum in which to present the facts. What is your trade? Circus geek?
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are

Are you THAT fucking stupid????
You are arguing with me on a metalworking newsgroup......
.....which, I'm guessing, confuses you into thinking I just MIGHT be employed as a candle-dipper....another "hot" apprenticeship in your book, I would assume?
I build street rods and race cars - metal fabrication.....one-man shop.
Trial-and-error. No apprenticeship. Innovation on the fly.
Someone offers a new challenge and it is up to me to come up with a way to achieve the final result.
Free-thinking......Not locked into a certain way of doing things because generations before me did it that way, and the "apprenticeship" taught me the "right way."
THAT is what is missing today.........
NOT someone showing someone else the way it has been done since fire was invented, but teaching someone how to think it out on their own..
You can not "apprentice" free, innovative thinking.
Apprenticeships provide the means to achieve ISO 9002 certification.....making things EXACTLY the same way every, single time - with no focus on whether it is a good product or bad product, just as long as the 1000th off the line is EXACTLY the same as the first.
Innovation runs counter to ISO 9002. Innovation will assure that the 1000th item off the line is an improvement over the first - but that drives bean counters buggy.
I NEVER build the same race car twice. Each car I build is the result of what I learned from the last one, coupled with whatever new technology has been introduced.
Let's see a union-trained apprentice do that !!!!
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* wrote:

Finally, we agree. The union apprenticeship is all rah, rah, rah...it's us against them. Your argument for free, innovative thinking is an argument for the evolution of apprenticeship into the acadmeic environment...depriving the unions and industry of controlling the individual's right to pursue free trade. We've been on the same side all along. The apprenticeship, I envision, is about man working resistant materials--wood, metal, soil-- that are inherent in nature; thus, inherent occupations of man. You have to think outside the box to innovate...so do so!
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How could you POSSIBLY come to THAT conclusion from what I have said????
I believe industry - NOT academia - is best-positioned to determine its own skills, training, and experience needs.

NOT AT ALL!!!!
I cannot believe you would even SUGGEST that!
I worked in academia, and consider most of it to be puffery, politics, and bullshit........as bad or WORSE than the unions, with student improvement - education itself - ranking pretty low in priorities.
I think you're a good example of that....especially when you say things such as......

You are a screwball !!!!!
You certainly have a perverse way of twisting what someone says into what you THINK was said............
....and a mastery of educational jargon - "bullshit" to common folk - to embellish a statement that has absolutely no substance to it.
I cannot believe you actually read what you claim to have read into my statements.
As a former Vocational Automotive Technology teacher for ten years, I absolutely abhor ANY suggestion that academia is - somehow - the solution, when all I have ever seen it be is the problem......
I guess you actuallly ARE, ".....THAT fucking stupid!"
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* wrote:

Again, I agree.
But, then you say you have had no apprenticeship after working in academia...teaching others as part of an apprenticeship...so, I guess I have to agree with you again...One of us is stupid.
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* wrote:

Yikes.
Regards,
Robin
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If the fact that I was a teacher surprises you, the idea that I had the highest placement rate - graduates going on to work in the specific field for which they trained - out of 16 Vocational programs in the entire school for the last five years I taught should REALLY twist your shorts.
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* wrote:

I cannot agree with your opinion regarding apprenticeships being a waste of time and stiffling innovation. How can one innovate when he does not know how to build current products correctly?
If you have not been exposed to a job where people work for more than a decade and are still not entirely competent, you may not appriciate the value of apprenticeships and the value of a competent journeymen.
I'm not dismissing your profession or industry, but I'm not sure you appriciate where professional machinists and toolmakers/moldmakers are coming from.
Regards,
Robin
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