Part P petition

Nonesense, see my other post for the quotes, but the new colours could be used for two years before part P was compulsary and in practice was used for a significant time. Greg

Which is why the regs don't permit new wiring to be added to an existing installation that is clearly dangerous, any sparky presented with this situation is supposed to advise the owner to have the dangerous wiring replaced, otherwise walk away, if they don't walk away they aren't insured for the work they do.

Of course now someone's going to claim that's just a money making rule for sparkies, even though it deals with exactly the problem you highlight!. Greg

Yes it does wash, if your house burns down becaues of your DIY electrics then quite possibly so does your neighbours. Why shouldn't THEY be protected from your stupidity?, and why shouldn't your children who have no say in the matter be protected?. Perhaps you believe it's your right to put your children in any risk you choose and no one should do anything about it?.

A statement like "I just don't think Big Brother should have any right to control what I do in my own home" can be used to justify anything and is fundamentally unacceptable in any decent society, there have to be rules.

Greg

Exactly, in any decent society the most you can do is say that people are free to do what they wish so long as it doesn't harm others.

If your house is in the middle of a field, no one but consenting adults lives there, you pay for the fire brigade and health service costs that result from your actions, then you can do what you like. But in the real world, why should my house be burnt down because of my neighbours actions, why should I pay for the public services he needs as a result, and worse of all why should a child die because of it's parent's stupidity?. You have to have laws against stupid actions that harm others. Greg

What any of this rubbish has to do with uk.rec models engineering is completely lost on me...this and several other current threads have more to do with people liking the sound of their own voices than anything even faintly useful to anybody of sound mind.

Perhaps we're being infiltrated by Al Qaida? --

Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"

Since many model engineers have rewired their workshops, or would perhaps like to do so, ISTM that it is of direct relevance to many. If you don't find a thread of interest, don't read it. It's not rocket science.

David

There already were rules! Compliance with the current version of the Wiring Regs were and are still, a legal requirement. There was no need to change anything.

Mark Rand RTFM

You owning up? 8-)

As this group regularly discusses the wiring of workshops and machinery it's very much on topic. Greg

There were rules but little enforcement so they were often ignored with serious consequences for both those ignoring them and innocent bystanders. The changes are an attempt to improve enforcement, and like any enforcement it will never be 100%.

But if you follow the reasoning that no enforcement is better than imperfect enforcement you scrap the police and barricade yourself into your fortress until someone stronger kills you!.

Not one person in this debate has suggested a single way the system of enforcement could be more complete or fairer, the only view is "I want to do what the f*ck I want and sod the consequences". Of course if a joy rider plows into your family on the street you may just realise the stupidity of that view.

The only way forward is to improve the system and the absolutely pathetic 211 signatures that this petition has got indicates that most reasonable people understand that. Compare that with the 581977 signatures against the new road taxation and you get some idea how little support there is for scrapping part P. Nearly 1 percent of the entire UK population has signed that one, but less than the number in my street think part P should be scrapped. Greg

I think the argument against Part P is that the cost is disproportionate to the benefit. Paople are having to rip out perfectly good main boards to replace them with ones that meet the current standards where there is basically no improvement in safety. Same with the new earth bonding requirements. Etc etc.

It is a gross oversimplification to suppose that tightening of a regulatory regime is necessarily beneficial. It's a question of cost benefit.

Many people see a problem with British regulators in that they tend to overcomplicate and gold plate regulations with no consideration of how much it will cost or what the benefit might be in the number of saved lives (and of course all the economic benefits of that).

For example, press and public stupidity and ministerial cowardice result in requirements to spend billions upon billions on train protection systems to save something like four lives a year. That is not a sensible use of resources because the same money could be used in other ways to benefit many more lives. The tax pot is not bottomless.

To make matters worse, another bunch of ignorant people then come along and misinterpret the intent of the law and cut down swathes of horse chestnut trees so that they don't risk getting sued if a kid were to get a stick in its eye.

That's because the petition is worded in such a way ...as Joe Public don't know what the f*ck it's going on about ..PART-P ..never heard of it till this thread started ...then had to look it up on google !!! change wording to ..

"The government want to completely ban diy electrical installation ..sign if you're against this."

YOU could also add if the nanny government had its own way it would also ban all DIY. all car maintenance, all machinery ...and will be in favour of a curfew after 8pm for all UK citizens...and every new born would have a chip implant tracking their every move. ... don't give an inch ...i say ...they are slowly but surly putting it on us, bit by bit .

All the best.mark

To add to this what do you think the govs petition site is all about .. I think it is a step along the way of completely banning paper petitions .. soon that site is the only way you will be aloud to make a petition people with paper petitions will be turned away ..

the petition on-line site is all about . ignoring them and sweeping them aside.

All the best.mark

A very dubious statement, if you had said that unscrupulous tradesmen were using part P as an excuse to do unnecessary work I could agree, nowt new in that trick though is there? Greg

Nope, fact. If your mains board has the lighting on an RCD they cannot move it nor replace the RCD if it fails - it's time for a new board, despite there being nothing whatsoever wrong with the old one.

Who says they can't?, the regs certainly don't. Greg

Charles

Re the air brush you are advertising for a tenner....if it's still available, I would like it please.

Regards --

Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"