Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards

Out of interest, does anyone have an opinion as to which of the Nuffield

10/60 or 4/65 tractors was better? I'm curious in case I buy a JCB 4D one day.

Best wishes,

Chris

The e-mail I sent you bounced. E-mail me at cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net if you want his number, but be quick.

Best wishes,

Chris

That might be true your experience, but it's not true in general. Correctly set up, with good blades, a bandsaw is just as capable as a hacksaw of cutting squarely. My 4" b/saw with a good 1/2" wide blade can cut a 4" dia MS bar square within about 10 thou or less. Near enough for all but a perfectionist.

Go into any steel merchants supplying to trade shops, and I'd be surprised if you see them using anything but b/saws. They need the cutting speeds, but they'd soon lose customers if they supplied billets etc, that were not cut squarely.

But, hacksaws and bandsaws often cut off square as the blades start to get blunt and need replacing.

At that time, as well as becoming blunt, it's common for the tooth offset to wear more on one side than the other. That is the usual cause of saws cutting off square. That applies equally to both hacksaw and bandsaw blades. Mike.

It's possible that I've never seen a bandsaw that's well adjusted. Nevertheless I remember talking to a knowledgeable technician about the problem, and he said "They never cut square". But bandsaws do seem to be more sensitive to wear and poor maintenance than hacksaws, and I imagine that this could be the cause of the problems.

There's a trade machine shop near me which still has a Rapidor power hacksaw.

Best wishes,

Chris

That Van Norman sounds cool. But I've no way of transporting it, so I'm not going to express an interest and become a drongo.

How much does a Bridgeport weigh, and what is it worth for scrap now? I was under the impression that a good Bridgeport was worth about £1500.

Best wishes,

Chris

Well, I passed on the guy's phone number to Roger, who called him first thing this morning. But he'd already scrapped it. What's especially galling is that he refused to sell me certain parts from the machine in case he wanted to sell it as a functioning machine. Wasteful idiot!

I'm tempted to post his name and address here so that anyone who's interested in machinery preservation can avoid selling stuff to him. But for the moment I won't in case it causes me trouble. However, if you're in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area and want to know, send me an e-mail (cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll tell you who he is.

I'm fuming!

Chris

Then your technician was less knowledgable than either of you thought. If they weren't capable of cutting square they wouldn't be the cut off saw of choice for most if not all, steel suppliers.

But bandsaws do seem to be

Bandsaws do have more critical parts than hacksaws. In particular the blade guides. The guides are adjustable for blade thickness, and to an extent for the angle of twist given to the blade. They must be set to twist the blade so it's exactly at 90 degrees to the vice bed. As long as that setting is maintained there is no reason why a b/saw should not make a square cut. Apart from blade wear, as mentioned before.

and I imagine

IME most trade shops don't need the increased cutting capacity of a b/saw for cutting their own material, so if they already have a hacksaw, see no reason to change unless it wears out. Apart from that, if space is at a premium, a hacksaw usually takes up less floor space than a b/saw of equal capacity. Mike.

What do you think scrap dealing is - a vocation? Of course they're in it for the money!

Ian

I'd rather been wondering that myself during this thread. The name "scrap dealer" ought to serve as some sort of notice that they're there to deal in scrap metal..

Sure, in times when business has been slow some of them may have been happy to keep and sell on unscrapped stuff, but that isn't the case now. And surely if you don't want something to be scrapped then selling it to a //scrap dealer// isn't the smartest move..

Christopher Tidy gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Ri-i-i-i-i-i-ight.

How's your application to the Charity Commissioners going? What do you mean "Which application?" - surely you're looking to make this retirement home that you're setting up for superannuated JCBs a charitable trust?

Oh, wait a mo... You're not actually doing it yourself? You're expecting somebody else to pay to transport and store this unwanted kit that you don't think should be scrapped? Hmmm...

The point we were trying to make is that we don't think you should scrap good machines just to make money.

Chris

Amidst that barrage of sarcasm I get the impression that your opinion differs from mine. Am I right? If so, forget it. As I said to someone else earlier, either you get my disgust or you don't.

Chris

You're right, but it doesn't make it any more excusable. It's like those property developers who buy large Victorian houses, tear them down and build shoebox flats in their place. It may be legal, but it's wasteful and destructive of our heritage.

With that, I'll call it a day. I don't think this discussion's going any further.

Best wishes,

Chris

Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a while ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the guy stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold the new owner they can do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make you cry to see how many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to find. but hey ho that life.

Rob

A scrap dealer is there to make money from scrap. However much the scrap is worth, I bet the machine representing that scrap is worth more to someone as a going concern, especially (speak in hushed tones lest they hear us) daft buggers like us who value oily, worn out machines as more than the sum of their parts.

What's a Lister A weigh? And that is worth what as mixed scrap? How much would you pay for it in poor but restorable condition?

As ever, it is communication that is the key. Mr S. Man needs to know that there is someone just five minutes away who is keen to be parted from their cash in order to scamper off delightedly clutching a rusty iron thingy to his chest! It is just finding them ...........

regards,

Kim Siddorn

Well at the end of the day, its all a load of ... scrap ...

Regards, Tony

Not quite the same thing, as I imagine most people looking for old cast fireplaces etc, are looking to use them, rather than keep them simply as collectors items.

Old machinery is not worth preserving simply because it's old. Providing a few good examples are preserved in museums, collections etc, I think that's enough to ensure they are not forgotten.

What I would say though, is that if individuals like the idea of owning and maybe restoring some of it for their own use, that's their prerogative. Nothing wrong with that, but just because they do feel that way, I don't think they should criticise those who regard old machinery simply as scrap metal, which IMO most of it is. Mike.

Actually, the Lister D story was a little more complicated than that. As I recall, the buyer stated that he was purchasing the engine for preservation, and also agreed to give the original owner first refusal should he decide to sell it. But then he stripped it and sold it for spares on eBay. This was a clear betrayal of trust and something that it was quite understandable that the seller was upset about.

Best wishes,

Chris

This is exactly my point.

I just get annoyed when they're in too much of a hurry or too lazy to give someone else an opportunity to buy the machine.

Best wishes,

Chris