Taking photos of models (not girly models)

Is there a setting for the size of the area that auto focuses? My Pentax gave me loads of problems with close ups until I realised I could reduce the auto focus area to a smaller size.

AWEM

In article , Cheshire Steve writes

You will probably get a lot more advice on one of the rec.photo groups (rec.photo.digital, rec.photo.dslr, or rec.photo.35mm).

Several thoughts. First, the macro facility on compact cameras (digital or film) is not very good - it's a bit of a kludge - but it should give results adequate for web use at least. It could be faulty, but (if you forgive me for suggesting it) user inexperience is a more likely cause, and would certainly be cheaper to try to cure.

Second, camera shake ruins more macro shots than anything else. Use a tripod or some other means of holding the camera steady (a bean bag is a cheap home-made alternative capable of good results). Alternatively, use flash - though the built-in flash in a compact camera will almost certainly give horrible illumination, with the close part of the subject washed out, and deep shadows. A separate flash gun would be much better used with a diffuser or reflector.

Third, the depth of field in macro photography is vanishingly small. If the subject is not pretty flat (such as a coin, or paper) you will have to use a small aperture. The slightest movement of the camera closer to, or further from, the subject after focusing will throw the picture way out of focus.

BTW, the best method of focusing in macro shots is to set the focus manually, and move the camera back and forth to give sharp focus. This is because a small change in the lens focus will change the image size significantly, making accurate framing difficult.

The great advantage of using an SLR camera is that you see exactly what you are taking - no parallax error - and have a vast range of interchangeable lenses. The sensors of digital SLRs are much larger than those of digital compacts, giving higher quality results. The disadvantages include much higher weight and cost, and the fact that in most cases* you get no live preview on the LCD screen. For photos of magnification more than about 0.2, you will need either a dedicated macro lens, or extension tubes, or at least a front-mounted supplementary close-up lens. The latter two accessories work better with fixed focal length lenses rather than zooms.

*The latest Olympus E-series DSLRs do have live preview, and this sounds very useful for macro work.

David

The excuse only is valid for better light in your shop.

Nick

In macro, move camera about 12-14 inches away ...and zoom in.

You also need plenty of light ...or exposure time will be up and it will open the shutter longer........meaning one slight move and you blur the picture.

The last paragraph is how it works on conventional cam ...I dont know if a digital automatically lengthens exposure ...just presume so.

Mines an olympus and takes great close ups

here's one of, part of a bridgeport.

all the best.mark

Get one of the Sony Mavica or Cyber-Shot cameras, the Macro mode is excellent and the Mavicas have large 2.5" viewing screens, something I always liked about them.

The older Mavicas are quite cheapo now, and if you choose something like the FD-100 or FD-200 they run on Memory Sticks as well as the 3-1/2" floppies.

We have a selection at home and an FD-100 that we use here in the workshop. The FD-100 focuses down to 1.25" in Macro mode - pretty close and the only problem then is lighting the subject.

Latest acquisition is a Cyber-Shot DSC-F717, an extraordinary machine that focuses down to 0.8".

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

David, having had my Olympus (C720-UZ) digital knocked off the table by my daughter I have been looking at the new E-series (400) to replace it and also allow me to use all of my OM mount Zuiko lenses. Being stupid I hadn't worked out what "live preview" was, thank you at least now I realise it could be very useful.

Regards

Keith

Thanks Mark (and others)

Looks like my excuse for a new SLR is getting a little thin. The main problem was that I was getting too close instead of zooming in (I always thought of zoom as for far off stuff). The digital camera back is OK for framing, but not to tell if you have sharp focus. So what I needed was to back off a bit further (as you say keep at least 12 to

14" away) and then zoom in.

I have rattled off a few test shots and they seem a lot better. At least with digital it costs nothing to get some practice in.

I'll have to think up another excuse for the SLR !

Cheshire Steve

You need decent light and a tripod. If the camera has it, use a timer delay to trip the shutter. True manual focus helps if the autofocus gets confused.

Decent light, for me, is sunlight but slightly difused, not direct and harsh.

Now, should you get a digital SLR ? Questionable. The problem will be depth of field.

At a basic optics level, a smaller sensor (or film) has bigger depth of field. This is why a lot of digital cameras are better at macro than previous 35mm film cameras; the sensor is tiny compared to the 35mm negative. (The aperture on the lens is also critical on depth of field, the smaller the aperture the better the depth of field).

Now a digital SLR has a fairly large sensor (typically about the size of APS film) compared to a compact or "bridge" digital camera. In many cases this larger sensor has advantages, but for macro work its questionable whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

The professional model photographers I know (working for model railway press) use "bridge" cameras rather than SLRs. They could afford either for their work. I know a couple of photographers who still use Nikon 4500's (4mpx, quite ancient in digital camera terms) because they are compact, can be wiggled into tight spaces, and have a lot of manual control.

- Nigel

Thanks David, all good stuff in your reply (and - yes - inexperience on my part is the main problem).

Regards the snip above, this is why I was thinking of SLR. You can't move a compact back and forth to check the focus, as the LCD doesn't have the resolution, and the view finder is no use. The LCD is great for framing though - I got lots of well-framed blurry photos !

Cheshire Steve

Aha ! So the compact camera is better for depth of field for macros (which is maybe why I can get away with using the zoom). Great explanation. In the end my choice of little camera was dictated by the metal weatherproof construction. The last compact I had got crushed in my pocket.

Cheshire Steve

Keith, one of my hobbies is photomicrography, and find that the focus screens on most current SLRs is hopelessly inadequate for critical focusing. (A few professional level bodies allow the screen to be changed, and allow one to use a clear screen with cross-hairs, the only sort which is up to the job, but the digital ones of these are *very* expensive - think the price of a good lathe.) The image quality of DSLRs is so much better than from compacts, but utterly useless if you can't focus correctly. A DSLR body with live preview would be extremely useful for this, provided that it has adequate zooming facility to let you get really close in (the resolution of the LCD screens is not adequate to get critical sharpness full-screen). The Olympus range has introduced it, and (as a Canon user) I am very pleased to see that their latest release also has it. I foresee some further expenditure.....

I have to say that I would find it little use for normal photography though; I am so used to the optical viewfinder that squinting at the LCD screen does not appeal in the slightest. Apart from anything else, the optical viewfinder can be adjusted to suit your own eyesight, something those of us old enough to start needing reading glasses will appreciate!

In article , Cheshire Steve writes

Yes, I was thinking of using an SLR with optical viewfinder here.

David

First, read the fine manual on macro for your camera. My Sony V3 works best at about 2.4x zoom.

Light, extra light from sides will help a lot.

Tripod. Does not have to be fancy. Eliminates shake, allows longer exposures with smaller aperatures for depth of field.

Self timer. When mounted on tripod, use self timer to eliminate shake from pushing shutter release. After all, that model isn't going anywhere.

Polarizing filter (circular) can help in photographing shiny objects.

is a source of a decent free photo manipulation program to help tweek the image.

HTH,

Wes

On or around 4 Apr 2007 02:18:08 -0700, "Cheshire Steve" enlightened us thusly:

latest FPB[1] here is a Konica/Minolta Dimage Z3 and it's a very nice little thing, and since they're now out of production the prices are good. later ones in the series (Z5, Z6 for e.g.) have more pixels, but similar function. The Z3 has 12x optical zoom, and 2 macro modes - one for "ordinary" macro such as taking pictures of things about the size of a small book and a super-macro which will take pictures of things about an inch in front of the lens.

It replaced an Olympus C700UZ which is a lovely little camera but lacks image stabilisation (which the Z3 has) and credible video capture: the Z3 will do 640x480 at 30 fps and low compression; the downside of that is that it's about 100MB per minute, so a half-gig card is good for about 5 minutes. However, there's a patch available to let it take 2GB cards (as shipped it only accepted 1GB max.)

Only real objection to it is that in very low light the autofocus hunts and won't always lock on, but in extremis you can always switch it to manual focus mode. I don't know if the later models improved on that.

[1] Fingery[1a] Picture Box [1a] think about it...

Yeah - most digital compacts of recent (last 2 years)

100 quid+ will do this in their sleep!

If you tell me the model of your camera, I'll see if I can help.

You definitely do NOT NEED a digi-SLR (although if you WANT one, that's fine by me)

BugBear (some interest in photography)

Hi Bugbear,

I think the others have shown where I was going wrong - should have backed off and used the zoom. Its an Olympus Mu 300. Apart from the zoom switch (plastic) breaking in two, its doing a good job. Not much good for car racing at Oulton Park or great panoramas, but OK. My film SLR is retired, I will eventually want a digital SLR to replace it - such a shame the Canon AV lenses don't swap, or maybe they make a digital replacement for the film canister that slots in the back ??

Anyway it seems that I have just about the best for these sort of closeups on a budget, the only problem was my incompetence !

Steve

I've found Canon compacts (powershot A60 and S2IS) do quite a fair job of macro for recording mechanical failures in industrial plant. Generally the highest mag where autofocus works OK are given by zooming out, but moving in close. Obviously, lighting and camera shake are issues. In film days when I used to photograph rolling element bearings (notoriously difficult to light) I would put a cylinder of paper around the component and use a flashgun off-shoe to light the cylinder from outside and get diffused light. The really nice thing about digital is that it is easy to experiment and preview. Unless you have money to burn I would think about compacts, either those with large screens for preview, or (better) in conjunction with a cheap laptop.

The digital view finder in many mid-end digital cameras now (not the optical one or view screen, the LCD display built into a viewfinder) appears to give an image focused at infinity and big enough to see. Since I have -5 dioptre glasses and am now old enough to need reading glasses to use the lathe, I find this facility invaluable. I never could get used to taking my glasses off and then using a correction lens on the Nikon viewfinder or taking my glasses off and holding an LCD display 5" in front of my face.

Of course, you may well find a 640x480x27fps viewfinder image to be not good enough for fine work, but it's usually good enough for landscape, portrait and video stuff.

Mark Rand RTFM

If one picks the "right" model of fairly cheap compact camera, they allow remote control of the shutter and viewfinder from a computer (eg. laptop). Some of the Canon A series do this (check carefully before buying, not all). For studio work this can be a breeze to use - use computer screen to compose picture and control camera, take picture, mangle instantly in Photoshop, decide not happy, so take again, etc without touching the camera.

- Nigel