Microcontroller development environment with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student

On 1 Feb 2005 23:01:49 -0800, the renowned "David L. Jones"


It probably could get close enough that volume makes up the difference for micros of comparable ROM/RAM/periperals. As happened with 4-bit->8-bit.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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wrote:

This is kind of funny, considering I've heard this exact argument on why the 8-bitters were overkill and the 4-bitters (PPS, COP, TMS10000) would always be there. You just didn't need 8-bits for most control problems. Appliances could get by fine with 4-bit processors.
Back then, in the 6 micron days (1980), I kind of believed them.
Then that crazy 8051 started taking off.
The king is dead, long live the king.
I think we will see 50cent ARM's in a few years. They were around 10 bucks. They're a few bucks now, and falling, very comparable to AVR, and now approaching low end PICs.
--
Randy M. Dumse
www.newmicros.com
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On Tue, Feb 01, 2005 at 08:47:23PM -0600, Randy M. Dumse wrote:

Sounds good, but does this new chip have the same limitation as the LPC2106 with regard to the I/O speed? While the main system clock runs fast, I/O clocking is quite limited, something like 3.8 MHz regardless of the faster system clock. For a lot of applications, that makes it not quite so impressive after you take that into account.
Is that a "feature" of all ARM implementations in general, or just the Philips chips?
-Brian
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Brian Dean
BDMICRO - ATmega128 Based MAVRIC Controllers
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David L. Jones wrote:

I prefer GCC over the "polished" commerical compilers, even Atmel's own IDE. Anyone who took an introductory C programming class in college should have no problems using GCC for the AVR.
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If you're using C on PICs, then I hope you never depend on the code being re-entrant. The lack of a proper chip-level support for a C run-time stack kills the platform for me.
CTW
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If you used sdcc which is a freeware ansi complient C compiler for 8052/avr/pic/z80 processors then you would have the best of all possible worlds with a compiler which is generaly well behaved and allows you to pick your processor to suit the job.
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According to the offical SDCC site: AVR and gbz80 ports are no longer maintained. Does it work well enough for AVR, or is it hopeless?
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An indirect reply:
I know that SDCC works well for 8051, and I know that WinAVR (GCC) works well for AVR. There will be little code that cannot be compiled with both and nearly all such code will be processor specific anyway (the IO routines for example) - it should be easy to switch between compilers with the same code base [I already do this].
Regards, Richard.
http://www.FreeRTOS.org
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Hi
I am just a newbie, but I know of a new e-book for sale ( USD$ 29.95 ) that uses the AVR Butterfly board ( USD$20 from Digi-key.com ), I bought 3 of them! which is a credit card sized board AVR 169 that has a 5-way joystick, lightsensor, 4 Mbit flash memory, temperature sensor, speaker, LCD, and RS-232.
I am waiting for the hard-copy version to be released. The author teaches you how to install and use the free WinAVR C-based development environment.
All you need is some additional components from an electronics store ( listed at the back of the book) and you have all you need to get started. Check it out at:
http://www.smileymicros.com /
For Microchip PICmicro, there are free (limited to 2kB hex code) C (new), BASIC and Pascal compilers from http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/compilers/compilers.htm There are also free online books ( a good one for assembler ). A very good online forum for the BASIC and Pascal compilers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Dale

routines
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DS wrote:

) that

of
joystick,
and
teaches
environment.
(
started.
(new),
http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/compilers/compilers.htm
good
Olimex sells come AVR dev boards too. For about the same price also, about $15USD. www.olimex.com
Wing Fong Wong
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<Nico> wrote in message> What is the best (not expensive) microcontroller development environment

1. Do you need ICE : In Circuit Emulator ? This is hardware which lets you stop your program at the places you choose and look at your variables. If you are a newbie or in a hurry, or need insurance, an ICE is required. The alternative is "Crash and Burn", where you write some code, fiddle until it works, write some more. People say they don't need an ICE, but I would not pay someone to spend days finding a bug by trial and error.
2. Only the bigger chips do C++, because of required code memory.
That leaves C for the smaller chips. Let me share a secret : programmer productivity and quality when using C (and C++) is fairly low, ie you take more time to produce code with more bugs. This is to do with the C language itself. There may be screams of outrage from others on this group, but you can save brain cells, time and quality by using Pascal or even a good compiled Basic. Don't be too proud.
3. Get the most powerful chip you can : the most RAM, FLASH, EEPROM, speed, timers, peripherals, ports etc. You aren't going to make 1000 of these, so saving $50 and spending 2 months extra time is silly.
You can't compare microcontrollers by comparing crystal speed - for example, the 8051 derivatives are all slow - even the 25 MHz pipelined chips, because the 8051 has a brain dead instruction set.
4. I am getting a good run from the Atmel AVR chips.
The free GCC compiler is easy to install and use. Google for WinAVR and you can download the compiler and editor and be running. It is good.
For $450 you can buy the JTAG ICE for AVR - a real In Circuit Emulator.
The AVRs have so much grunt that I write all my interrupt handlers in C. Not a line of assembler anywhere.
5. Another suggestion altogether : put an old PC motherboard in your project and forget about microcontrollers. ADC and digital I/O cards for ISA bus are cheap and easy to program. Program it in Turbo Pascal for DOS or C++. Easy to debug and fast development.
Roger
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I like using a simulator and simlate on computer. The one that comes with the atmel chip works quite well for my puposes. I'm not paid enough to afford an ICE. I envy those who have access to such hardware. :P
--

Wing Wong.
Webpage: http://wing.ucc.asn.au
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On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:40:21 +1100, "Roger Lascelles"

I'm just in the process of buying an 8 bit ICE for around A$12,000. I'd say that was a bit pricey for a student, wouldn't you?

Rubbish.
Maybe, except the high end CPUs tend to be a lot more complex which is probably not what a beginner needs.

Better than my A$12k but still a lot for a newbie.

Errr... hang on a mo... didn't you just say in [2] above... no,never min.
Mike Harding
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On Tue, Feb 01, 2005 at 07:40:21PM +1100, Roger Lascelles wrote:

Yep.
For the more budget aware, take a look at the ECROS Technology ICE-Cube:
http://www.ecrostech.com/Products/AvrJtagIce/Intro.htm
JTAGICE clone device for $40. I have one, it works just like the real thing. It's a great bargain.

You might need to add a small nuclear power plant to power the thing, though.
-Brian
--
Brian Dean
BDMICRO - ATmega128 Based MAVRIC Controllers
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:45:28 +1100, <Nico> wrote:

Get AVR studio which is a free download from Atmel web site. AVR studio does not include a C compiler (only assembler) but is used for souce level debugging of C code or Assembly code. A STK500 prototype board from Atmel is a low cost option to program the AVR devices. A JTAG debugger is a more expensive option which will also support in-circuit debugging.
For C compiler, I suggest Imagecraft is excellent value for money and works quite well with AVR studio for simulation / debugging. There is a 45 day evauation version at www.imagecraft.com
regards, Johnny.
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Nico wrote:

This is a general question for other lurkers. I am wondering if any of this need is related to courses at Ultimo TAFE? and if so, which subjects?
TIA.
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Hi
I will be starting Advaced Diploma in Electrotechnology Electronics/Computing Engineering at Illawarra TAFE at Wollongong next week. One of my teachers has said to stick with PICmicro, because most of the jobs here in Oz require PICs. He also advises learning the Motorola 68HC11. He said to stick with the C compilers for PICs, because he said that if you said in an interview that you programmed in BASIC they would laugh at you. He closely follows what is happening down the road at Wollongong University, which uses C.
Cheers
Dale

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DS wrote:

next week.

the jobs

68HC11. He

you
you.
University,
It doesn't really matter too much which micro you have experience with, a good micro designer will be able to easily move between platforms, especially if you have C experience. But it pays to have played with multiple platforms so you can show that you have cross-platform experience. You can't go wrong with knowing PICs though, they aren't #1 for nothing.
C is critical though in todays market, you have to know it. Assembler experience ain't worth much on it's own if you don't know C. Yes, BASIC still has a "beginner" stigma attached to it. Although I'd rather hire a crash hot BASIC programmer over a lousy C programmer any day. Languages can be taught, the ability to be a good programmer can't :->
Dave :)
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By the way, check out the subject descriptions for course 338 Electrical Technology at Illawarra Institute of TAFE
http://www.speedlink.com.au/users/electro/c3381.htm
Cheers
Dale

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DS wrote:

An execeedingly useful link. I've just spent a fortnight trying to find similar material for 0343 Ad Dip Computer Systems Technology, but it isn't available.
Thank you.
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