Opportunity Digs; Spirit Advances

"Ron" skrev i en meddelelse news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

I know that you can see for yourself, but:

This picture reveals 'mushed'/'squashed' spheres. That would be loosely aggregated ones, or highly weakened by 'weathering'.

Carsten

We're talking about raw data, there's nothing to get ready! Why can't we see the data so we can decide for ourselves what's going on? I don't need some government minder telling me what is or is not on mars. I suspect that was the whole point of Thomas's rant.

Before jumping all over nasa for withholding data, does anyone know if the raw data is available on-line?

WTF

Don't you think that those who have applied for grants to do the research, and those who have actually collected the data have a right to a first crack at it? It will come out in time, but you have to realize that NASA and JPL will not be releasing this data until their own people have a poke at it. That's just the way it works, dude.

No it is not, and not likely will not be for some time. See above. I expect that some limited amount will be released as we go, that is, after NASA and JPL have had a chance to look at it.

I've looked everywhere. If it's not right there with the images on NASA's and JPL's website, which it isn't, there is a serious problem. This is a serious problem.

I just sent an email to the FAS to see what their opinion on the subject is, and if there was any previous agreements with the instrument developers, if they would be willing to pursue legal action against NASA and JPL to prevent this from happening to data streams on future international co-operative space missions.

Not only is the lack of timely raw spectroscopy data unfortunate, it's illegal.

Thomas Lee Elifritz

What law do you think it is violating?

So now you're a lawyer too.

PLONK

Without near realtime access, the ability to hide information from the public exists.

This is all I could find on the subject as far as nasa's website is concerned, but I did not do an exhaustive search.

Oh, this getting precious. The US government hiding info from the citizens? Whatever made you consider that?

giggling Jo

Perhaps some spectra are difficult to interpret because they do not match the database of earthly rocks. Of possible 100 metal hydrides, only 7(?) are detectable on Earth: H2O, CH4, NH3, H2S, HCl, HBr, and HI. The rest decompose in the presence of oxygen or water. I theorize, that if martian vulcanism persisted after oxygen and water became scarse, additional hydrides may be present on Mars. For analogy, FeH2, CaH2 and CrH2 are present in L dwarfs:

If the other 93 are not detectable on earth, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how they were ever detected in the first place?

The law according to Thomas Lees ElfDork, of course!

For starters, they can be made in the lab and then a spectral analysis performed. Simple. Those that break down in the presence of oxygen or water need not suffer that fate in a good chemist's hands. Furthermore, you can get a wonderful idea of what their spectra would look like theoretically and then you can check it against man-made samples for verification. Then we would know their signatures if ever detected under non-terrestrial conditions.

Cheers!

Chip Shults

Oh, so they CAN be detected on Earth! Thanks for clarifying that situaton for me. For a moment I thought he as saying that only "7" could be detected on Earth!

Let's apply scientific methods to the problem, since you appear not to understand them very well. The evidence strongly suggests that NASA/JPL is withholding spectroscopic data from US citizens. NASA's administrator, Sean O'Keefe, is directly responsible for NASA, and he answers directly to the president, and the president is held accountable by his constituency, the US public, and is the executive of the US government. Thus, by simple logical deduction, the US government is withholding spectroscopic information from its citizens. Hopefully, MERgate will bring these bastards down. :-)

Now, is MER spectroscopy a matter of national security? I don't think so. Now, rather than going through all the trouble litigating the matter, and forcing the release of this information through the freedom of information act, I suggest that NASA start posting MER spectroscopy data in a timely fashion on its MER website at :

Otherwise, I suggest a lawsuit is in order, to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

The American public has a fundamental right to publicly funded science data.

Otherwise, it's just another example of the dumbing down of America.

NASA has already amply demonstrated its incompetence.

The American people can do better than that.

Thomas Lee Elifritz

On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:08:45 GMT) it happened Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote in :

Look, they found life, its obvious those are mushrooms, the 'hairs' are roots. But this will screw op local religion, local politicians will feel feeble knowing the universe if so vast and full of voters for others, makes them insignificant, in their own eyes, so for this siilence is now the answer.

I know, it's a real bitch, this thing called life, but it's even worse for these poor geologists here. Now, with this Mars thing, not only is the Earth no longer the center of the geology universe, but now it appears that on a cosmic scale, matter itself is no longer the majority constituent of the universe. An entire university education, Ph.D. thesis, and years of post doc work, under some vain, egotistical asshole, down the drain. That's the way it goes in the wonderful world of physics. You just gotta love it.

Thomas Lee Elifritz

I think that he meant to say that one could expect to only find those 7 by going outside in the back yard and dig up some dirt and rocks and measure them in the lab....

I realize what he meant. I just wish people could be just a little more precise in their meaning so the kooks don't come out of the woodwork and try to make mountains out of mole hills. On that note, there may be something to what he is saying. Yet not being a chemist myself, I don't know how much interference there other hydrides would have on the ones were are looking for. Can the instrumentation on the rovers even detect those other hydrides?

Only if the spectra are present in your database. For example, hydrogen sulfide gas becomes solid at ~85C. Would you be expecting to find solid H2S rocks on Mars?. The outcrop at stone mountain is heavy in sulfur: