AHPRA Bowling Ball Loft, LDRS 2004

:)

I hereby reserve 2 booth spaces, prime, for LDRS-NY in July 2004.

And one dunk tank space (proceeds to a good cause I specify).

Mere Jerry

I would note that we have not officially odopted a package regarding vendors/sponsors for LDRS23... yet. We're still in the committee process of putting together packages/costs for vendor/vendor-sponsors and how that all relates to onsite booth & signage as well as website promotion.

I recently posted some fairly lengthy questions about TRA, after having visited their website. Several people were kind enough to respond, both here and privately, and before continuing I'd like to thank everyone for their replies. At some point in the near future, I'll put together my overall 'understanding', and post it here, in case any further clarification is needed (everyone in the family is sick, including me, so I'm not horribly coherent at the moment)...

All that having been said, I'm trying to understand why there is any need for additional insurance over and above the 'primary insurance' that a TRA member pays for. What, exactly, is NOT covered in the 'normal' insurance, that would require 'extra' insurance for an event such as LDRS? If more insurance is required for LDRS, then why doesn't a monthly launch at a prefect require such additional insurance? What, precisely, are the specifications of this policy such that one would be considered un-insured at LDRS without additional insurance? And if there are such restrictions, then how is a TRA members supposed to know under what circumstances they can consider themselves insured/uninsured?

I would appreciate any clarification from those with insight into this (again, please take any name-calling or rants to the next thread down the hall...)

David Erbas-White

Woah. Sorry if I wasn't clear here. And it really looks like I wasn't. I

***NEVER*** meant to imply that any one connected with BRS had their hands in the cookie jar. My apologies to you, the rest of BRS, and any one else who took my comments that way.

What I was stating is that ***TRA Kontrol*** has their hand in YOUR cookie jar. I've made this same comment before. What if BRS did NOT host LDRS next summer. What if instead you hosted NYPOWER or BFRfest or BuffaLoft or Lloyds Llaunch or whatever you want to call it. Pay no extra insurance (ie TRA profit) fee. Drop the $20 insurance surcharge for each flier. Pay nothing to Orem at all. Have vendors pay the same registration fee as any other participant.

And them proceed to do EXACTLY what you're already planning on doing. Would there be any difference at all in the event, what would be flown, who would come, etc? I think not.

Other than the use of the LDRS name, exactly what do you get for the several thousand dollars you send to Orem for running LDRS?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Please read my response to Lloyd posted a few minutes ago. It's clear my post was misunderstood. Or more likely that I wasn't clear in my statement.

WE is the NAR. BTW, I've been the "right hand man" or perhaps "left hand man" for 2 NARAMs hosted by NIRA. And if you haven't been to a NARAM, it's now 7 days of sport launch that includes HPR *PLUS* 5 days of competition. Two parallel ranges to run. The paperwork required for the contest portion is an order of magnitude more complicated than any sport launch, and includes much processing after the flight. The sport launch used to be an afterthought, but since HPR was introduced it too has become a major operation. In fact I think the past few NARAMs have seen more flight at the sport range than at the competition range.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I asked this last year & was told it's not an insurance charge. IIRC it just goes into the TRA treasury. (UHOH - I can hear it now)

Phil Ste>Rocketweb wrote:

Phil Stein

And factor in that we'll make sure there's lots-o-Canadian-beer available in the area for the week... I personally vouch to provide a case each of (Canadian) Molsen Golden & John Labatt's in the LDRS23 suite in the host motel. :)

Seriously though - BRS has been involved with launches in Geneseo since 1996 - including NYPOWER International/NSL 97 and NYPOWER

2000/NSL (for the NARites). The intent has always been to provide a safe and enjoyable launch experience for all involved. While our major intent for LDRS23 is to cater to the flyers (imagine that?), we also recognise the importance of the various vendors - whose opinions are always welcome. In a nutshell... we're trying to find a balance between the vendors and what best serves the flyers.

Doug BRS Inc. - VP & LDRS23 Web dude

You bringing your own dunk tank? I would - there's no telling what you might step in otherwise. 8-)

Phil Stein

Phil Stein

Clarification... THIS Topic is titled "AHPRA Bowling Ball Loft, LDRS 2004". Take your gripes to a another topic.

Doug Caskey BRS Inc. - VP

$80 if they're both wearing Speedos. That'd be a perfect rocket calendar photo op just crying to be made. ;-)

Mark Simps> $40 if it's Jerry & Bruce Kelly in the same tank. 8-)

Doug's been hitting the eggnog early this year. ;-)

Mark Simps> Hum to AC/DC Big Balls...

I think many people would prefer to pay the money, and NOT have to contemplate that IMAGE!

LOVE IT!! LOL!!

Tom

Correct. It's tithing to Orem. For no good reason. They charge it because they can, and nothing is provided for the money paid. Calling it an insurance surcharge is fraud on the part of TRA Kontrol. And puts the organization in a legal bind, as insurance sales are tightly regulated in most states. Even UPS got in major trouble over their "insurance" charges a couple years back.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Jerry didn't write that. I did.

Someone, probably Jerry, posted in this thread that I couldn't participate in BBL because my membership was revoked. That is not quite correct. I reponded to the error where it was posted.

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, Jerry was a noted competition flier. I recall sharing a podium with him at one of my early NARAMs, in Dual Eggloft! I think he and I would both be very competitive in this event if we could compete.

Serious question: As an L2 NAR member, can I come to LDRS-2004 and participate in everything except for the EX launch?

And not pay any insurance surcharges that don't cover me? After all I already have my own rocket insurance that covers me at LDRS. Only TRA insurance is limited in what rocket events it covers.

Hey, even though I don't drink the stuff myself, I'll bring you guys some beer from Chicago if I do come...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Correct.

Correct with EVIDENCE. Now if only we had a photo of that unusual moment!

Kaplow and Irvine at LDRS?

Don't cross the streams!!

No more pivotal example has ever been said on rmr!

Jerry

NAR members can fly at TRA launches. I've never seen an exception for you or Jerry.

If your gonna play ya gotta pay. Get over it!!!

Phil Stein

ROC Lucerne. BOTH at LDRS AND at monthly launches.

Jerry

Huh? He did already. Fully.

I wasn't there so, I couldn't have seen it. There's nothing in my copy of the TRA Bylaws about either of you.

Phil

Phil Stein