AHPRA Bowling Ball Loft, LDRS 2004

NAR has similar expenses for events like NARAM and NSL. Doc, what did you charge vendors and participants for NSL last year? John, what was your entry fee for NARAM-43, a full week of flying on the same site that LDRS will be next summer?

I just don't understand what can only be described as rip-off fees for vendors, participants, etc at LDRS. We manage to operate NARAM with modest participation fees, no manditory vendor kickbacks, and no tithing to Orem. The only explanation I can think of is that some one is skimming money off the operation.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

EXCUSE ME, Bob but I and BRS really resent you're implication that someone is skimming money from this operation!!!!!!!!! And where do you get off implying that NAR doesn't get any "tithing?'' The NSL's that we did, we had to "kickback" half of our profits (from range fees) to the NAR or we wouldn't have gotten the launch! And the cost of putting on a NARAM really isn't germain to this discussion. Several hundred people launching small rockets off of pads that I could build out of wood or PVC, in my basment doesn't even begin to cover what an LDRS is like.......or the equipment needed to run one. I'm sure I could build 70 model rocket pads for the cost of 5 high powered ones. Finally, while it's cool to have lots of vendors at a launch, they also take up the space and use the facilities that WE are paying for. I really don't think that it is too much to ask that they help defray some of the costs.......especially since their main reason to be at the launch is to MAKE MONEY! Also.......how many big shows/events, of any type have you been to where vendors are NOT charged for space on the grounds? It's statements like these that get you in so much trouble. You need to apologize or you just added BRS and all of it's members to the list of people that you are in trouble with.

Lloyd Wood BRS Secretary LDRS Launch Director/RSO Level lll

Bruce Kelly has a track record of that.

It may or may not stil be going on but he was absolutely caught red handed by Price and Rosenfield and it was reported to the board and to select manufacturers at the time including myself. It just got worse later and it still has not been "resolved" in any conventional manner.

I tried going to the LDRS web page to send you email to reserve a booth according to the terms you outlined in your rmr post but found no facility either through the tripoli or the LDRS22 websites, so I will ask you to confirm my request by email please. Thank you.

Doc I really didn't think that you thought we were doing anything bad and your apology is easily accepted! I also hope my reply wasn't too harsh:-). Frankly though......I don't think many people DO have a good idea of what it costs to put on an LDRS. BRS is already committed to almost $5000 in expenses........and we haven't even started yet! We've still got to get all the equipment (including pads, launch controllers, tents, tables, stakes, fencing, a PA system, signs and printed material.......just to name a few:-). The costs for the shirts, raffel prizes and rental fees for everything else, comes later. And yes...... after all this, the club would like to make a profit:-)! As I mentioned earlier, I really don't see why vendors shouldn't be asked to help contribute. All I have met are great people and I'd like to have them all there, selling lots of product, so everyone is happy. Most have been MORE than generous, in the past, with their donations for raffle prizes. We are just "formalizing" the process a little more:-). And lets face it......how many vendors would be there if they were NOT going to make money? Finally, we are only asking for $200 (their cost) in their product, donations for our raffle, which we will then sell and advertise for them. Some vendors said that they would rather give us the cash equivelant so we could buy what we wanted, ourselves. We came up with the cash equivelants for them. As I said........I didn't take your letter the wrong way (although some might, have:-) and your apology is heartly accepted. I look forward to meeting you next year. Any penance you feel can easily be disposed of by bringing LOTS of Yeungling Lager:-)! See you then.

Lloyd Wood BRS Secretary LDRS Launch Director/ RSO Level lll

I'll donate $5 to whomever if Jerry is in a prime spot.

Joel.phx

Then we're cool. I'll bring two cases of Yeungling. I know Jerry is gonna hammer some. ;-) I believe that make 5 of us, bringing 6 cases. Hmmmm, it should become interesting.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

$22.50 was for all three days for participants. The vendor fee was $75.00 If it wasent for the rocket kits I sold, we would have lost money. The NAR get's a (deserved) chunk of the net on the balance sheet.

John, what was your entry

Ouch, that's harsh.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

Jerry Our over worked Webmaster and VP is working on the site, as we speak. He promises to have something up, soon. When the site is up, the policy will be stated and a contact person (currently me... but that will change:-) will be named. At that point you can talk with him. One thing that we are going to request is that any raffel prize donations be sent to us at least a couple of weeks before the launch......NOT because we don't trust you/vendors:-) but rather because we need time to sort and organize the prizes for each days raffle. The raffle is going to be a considerable undertaking and the girls doing it (some of our better halfs) would like the time to do it right. WE would rather not make them mad:-)! Cash fees we'd actually like sooner (if possible) because we still need to buy prizes:-). I will remember, however that you were the first to ask to reserve one of the spots, so you won't get pushed to the back:-). Talk to you soon!

Lloyd Wood BRS Secretary LDRS Launch Director/RSO Level lll

I sincerely appreciate that. DOUBLE booth please.

considerable

Make it $10.

Joel. phx

I bet I could raise a considerable sum for a worthy cause just by having a "Jerry visits LDRS fund" of some sort.

go for it. start a paypal fund this month.

I'll make it $20 if they allow a "dunk Jerry for Charity" tank in either of the 2 premium spots.

Joel. phx

Last LDRS I attended (not stealth) that opportunity was missed in droves :)

$40 if it's Jerry & Bruce Kelly in the same tank. 8-)

Phil Stein

Phil Stein

How much extra for a hug and a kiss? Do I hear $10,000 to a registered charity of my choice?

Well no wonder... BRS is hosting LDRS 23 in 2004, and you're looking for LDRS 22. But, hey you can have all the space you want for LDRS 22. :)

Doug BRS Inc. - VP

Mark... Are you're interested in having a Topic for the Bowling Ball Loft created in the forums area for the LDRS23 site?

Doug Caskey BRS Inc. - VP & LDRS23 Web guy

Whoopdy doo... We're not talking about holding a "MODEL" rocket launch. BTW who is "we"? Can't recall YOU as NARAM CD lately? When you host an LDRS THEN you can talk from a position of "been there". Enuff said.

FYI the only funds going to TRA for LDRS 23 is for the insurance coverage. Which BTW if memory serves correct is less than the amount that went to the NAR from one of the NYPOWER/NSL's BRS/TWNY co-hosted with MARS.

Futhermore, I too resent the implication that anyone "is skimming money off the operation." If you want to continue a childish feud with Bruce - be my guest, but leave BRS and LDRS 23 out of it.

Better yet... why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go and start your own national rocket association / society / group / corporation / clique / add your preferred term; make your own rules, get your own insurance, your own internet, hold your own launches, and leave the rest of us alone.

Douglas Caskey BRS Inc. - VP