Best Pyrogen survey

Magnalite Pyrogen Four M1315s in 0.167 Seconds

Wedge Oldham

That's very good for through nozzle ignited!

Jerry

Thanks, and those were Medusa nozzles with a 0.350" center throat too! Wedge

Second that. We used magnalite pyrogen on a 7x38mm J2000 cluster. All motors lit. I've been using it for the last few years and its great stuff.

preference?

Hi, Here's my observations for two types of pyrogen:

Igniterman: Pros:

1) Very hot when it burns; hotter than Magnalite. 2) Pyrogen is relatively heavy so when it burns, burning chunks of it get imbedded in the propellant. 3) Never seen the pyrogen "pop" instead of burn when ignited.

Cons:

1) Not a very smooth pyrogen so it goes on kind-of "chunky"; not good for small igniters. 2) Igniter heads with this pyrogen are fragile and the pyrogen cracks very easily once dry. Sometimes (not often) this will cause the igniter to be electrically open and not work.

Magnalite: Pros:

1) A very smooth pyrogen so very small, thin igniters can be made successfully. 2) Ignites at a relatively low temperature... Ignites easily. 3) Pyrogen binder (stuff that makes pyrogen stick to the wire leads of the igniter) is VERY good; makes for a tough, durable igniter.

Cons:

1) Sometimes pyrogen will "pop" instead of ignite, if igniter not made carefully (multi-dipping the pyrogen). 2) Sometimes won't ignite really hard to light (old) propellant. This can be solved by scraping the propellant prior to inserting igniter.

Basically, both of the pyrogens are excellent. The Igniterman pyrogen isn't that good for making really small igniters, like for small single use composite motors but the Magnalite is. On the other hand, for really hard to light propellant, I have never had a mis-fire with the Igniterman pyrogen.

I use both of them because each type has strengths over the other. Both of them work well with the conductive primer. Hope this helps... Daniel

How small are you talking? I successfully use igniterman to make igniters for Aerotech 18mm RMS motors, which are _pretty_ small.

I thought a major "pro" for Igniterman is that the ends of the wires just need to be properly spaced & parrallel, whereas I thought with Magnalite, you have twist additional thinner wires around the initial two wires (a major "con" in my book). Am I right about that? -- 'Richard "damn, I'm going for a hummus special, ie, with ground beef on top of it" Hickok

With Magnalite you BUY the prepped wires.

I use the Firefox conductive mix and if the wires I use will fit into a

18mm, the igniter will work.

Joel. phx

Sounds like that would jack-up the price somewhat. Plenty of us start out wanting something more reliable than the ole' Copperhead, but many also hope for something economical too.

-- Richard "damn, that hummus special was good!!" Hickok

That's what I use too, except for I just use the conductive primer as the first coat, then recoat once or twice with my own pyrogen formula that is more durable and doesn't need sealing.

That way, the conductive stuff goes a long way.

Lately though I've switched over to milling my own graphite from leftover lathe swarf from turning nozzles to use in my own conductive pyrogen mix.

Mike Fisher

Don't confuse the conductive primer with the pyrogen - they are two seperate dips.

To create the foundation of the ematch one needs something that will provide sufficient heat to ignite the pyrogen... which is the dip that is going to give off plenty of heat and chunks of burning metal to ignite the motor. One can use either (a) a conductive primer, where one spaces the bare wire at the end of the twisted pair and dips it into a conductive mixture that will then heat up when powered, or (b) use a heater element... a small piece of nichrome wire for example, that will heat up white hot when power is applied. Generally, the nichrome bridge wire will require less current - the shorter the nichrome bridge wire the less current required.

I am playing with BOTH. They are both easy to use. The dip requires that the two wires be evenly spaced and parallel. The nichrome bridge wire, with a little practice, takes about 20 seconds to wire wrap onto the end of the twisted pair. Wish I could explain how I do it. I took apart a commercial igniter sold at Performance Hobbies and copied the way they wrap the nichrome. No soldering. Works great.

Once you have the foundation that will generate sufficient heat (either conductive primer dip or nichrome bridgewire) you then dip this into PYROGEN, which will provide a larger 'quantity' of white hot metal particles and a longer 'burn'.

I have been playing with Igniterman conductive primer dip AND pyrogen dip. Seems to work well, but the pyrogen dip, as confirmed on RMR, is "chunky" - making it a little less practical for, say, Estes D motors.

I am going to try the Magnalite pyrogen dip over a nichrome bridgewire ematch. I have plenty of nichrome purchased on eBay for a few bucks. I have 26 ga. twisted pair, which is a bit heavy for the smaller motors.... I am looking for something like 30 or 32 guage wirewrap twisted pair to work with.

Thanks for the input fellows.

Murray Lampert

LSRS23 July 1 - 6 , 2004 Geneseo NY

Nothing says that you MUST use the Magnalite prepped wires. It is a whole lot cheaper to wire wrap a few inches of #36 or #38 nichrome onto the end of your twisted pair - and after a bit of practise it is a breeze. The trick is to only have a very short length of nichrome actually conducting on its own as that's the part that will provide the resistive conductor and heat up.

Murray

Long way? Haven't finished the ones I made off that first set. They have a hotter dip for overcoat, forget what it was called.

Now that's darn right cheating ;)

Joel. phx

One of these days I'll figure out a use for all this mag swarf,....

top of it" Hickok

You can get hummus in hillbilly land?! Ground beef??!!! That's blasphemy!

You gotta take a ride up my way for hummus. Leave the pickup and the gun rack home, though, Rich. Better yet, there's some KILLER schwarma and kofte kebab around here, too. Can't beat either with a mali kulfi chaser.

Gene "I-always-forget-DC-ain't-hillbilly-land" Costanza

Throw it in the propellant mixer and fire it in a motor. That's what I do. It makes for a really bright flame plume and loud burn. No sparks though, it all gets vaporized in the flame zone. 10% to 15% coarse mag shavings works nicely.

Mike F.

Did I leave the smiley off? ;)

Joel. phx

Loud is good. I'm not a big believer in sparks. A little too close to fireworks, and a definite fire danger.

I just purchased Igniterman from Just Rockets. There are a few others still carrying it as well.... you sure it's not being made anymore? Several suppliers seems to have it.

Murray