Epoxy

I just got my first LOC kit. It recommends using epoxy for bonding "due to the high thrust motors that can be used in this kit." It's a 29mm
mount, I plan to use 24mm motors with an adapter. Later on I may graduate to 29mm motors, but not for a while. So my question is: Can I use notmal glue? What about Superglue, isn't that the same thing as epoxy? Sorry if I'm terribly off, a bit of a beginner to larger kits.
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I would go to Hobby Lobby and pick up some 5 Min Epoxy. This what I used with my PML kit and it came in with out a chute and all of the joints held together. I would not use reg glue and as far as super glue it would be allot cheaper to go and get the 5 min epoxy.
-- Tom Priest Rockethead Rockets snipped-for-privacy@rap.midco.net www.rocketheadrockets.com

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Personally, I would say that if you are going to use epoxy, you might want to use 20 minute or 30 minute epoxy. It depends on your building style and techniques. I tend to be a bit slower, so 30 min epoxy gives me more time to check and double check my positioning. I sometijmes use a small bit of 5 min epoxy to tack a part (or several parts) in position to minimize clamping. Then I go back and put the 30 min epoxy onn to finish the joints. With epoxy, you need to be carefull with the "pot life" which is the time the epoxy is workable. When you mix it in a cup, it tends to cure quicker - probably because the heat generated by curing is concentrated in a small place and speeds up the curing reaction. If you apply it quickly or spread it out thin after mixing, it cures slower and gives you more working time. 5 min epoxy mixed in a cup cures very fast and gets pretty hot. Also, make sure you use epoxy in a well ventilated area and wear gloves. Prolonged contact with epoxy and solvents can be very bad.
After saying all that, I must admit that Titebond II, as mentioned by John, below, is very strong and easy to use. Cleans up with water and has no hazardous fumes. I am finally starting to use more Titebond II and less epoxy on midpower and smaller high power projects. Here is a website listing results of some testing that was done to compare strength of glue/epoxy/CA. www.rocketmaterials.org
-- Eric Benner TRA # 8975 L2 NAR # 79398
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Why not spend $10.00 (PPD),and get the System Three TRIAL kit,and learn about epoxy and it's fillers? There's enough to finish his rocket,and he will learn a lot,too.
www.systemthree.com
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
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um $20
--
Tater
President of MARS Club (NAR #660)
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Includes a $10 coupon.
Joel. phx

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thanx for the update,last time I looked,the trial kit was $10.(long time ago.inflation,I guess.)
--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
jyanik-at-kua.net
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When did they raise the price?
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Zorfox wrote:

I recommend using Titebond II wood glue for the paper/wood LOC kits. It has a stronger bond than epoxy for these materials. I've used it for rockets up through "I" motors. About 100 student teams built their LOC Graduators and LOC IV's with Titebond in the outreach programs I helped with a Syracuse University.
-John DeMar http://delta.syr.edu/jsdemar
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Normal glue? I use yellow wood glue when joining wood products (paper, cardboard, plywood..). Some tubing is impregnated and I use epoxy on those. For epoxy I second the $10 trial kit. Most people become allergic to epoxy after exposure, so do what you can to minimize it.

No, superglue is different than epoxy. Not a chemist, so I'll leave that to someone else. It works great for tight fitting parts like on Aerotech kits. Some people will bond the root of the fin to the body tube with superglue to get it stuck fast and aligned. I'm used to woodglue for wood projects and like to have it soak in to the fibers which it can't do if there's superglue soaked in. Wood glue joints fail in the fibers where the glue stopped penitrating.

Terribly off? You're building rockets,... YOU'RE RIGHT ON!!
Joel. phx
See also: http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/fintest.htm

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zorfox wrote: << What about Superglue, isn't that the same thing as epoxy? >>
Superglue (aka "CA" for "cyanoacrylate adhesive") is fine, but don't use the cheapo stuff in the tiny tubes. For this type of application you want thick CA, also called "slow" CA. You can get it at most hobby shops. Get some "kicker" spray too. That's an accelerant to make the glue set faster.
When it comes to the thick stuff sold in hobby shops, I've found that cheap brands are usually better than the more expensive brands.
I use thick CA on all my model and high power rockets, almost exclusively. It works great.
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Wood glue would be just fine on a LOC kit. I use 5 minute epoxy more than anything any more due to the quick setting time. Super glue would be good for tacking fins in place. Just a drop at each end of the root, maybe one in the middle. Then you could go back and do fillets with epoxy or wood glue. As far as LOC's shock cord mounting method, it works. I use it exclusively now. I use epoxy on that also, and on larger rockets, lay a small piece of fiberglass across the ends of the cord. David

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To think when I used to build 4 inch diameter rockets I would compartmenalize everything, even shock cord mounts (since I used kevlar and I wanted it removable and exchangable) So I used U bolts and stuff and the rocket's in peices so its easier to transport (and paint)
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For an all cardboard and plywood kit, use Titebond II. It's stronger than epoxy on wood joints, easier to use and cheaper than epoxy. I use it on all of my wood rockets up to an including "M" powered rockets and never had a bond fail in flight.
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our Peacekeepers
Zorfox wrote:

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Would Elmer's Pro Bond Exterior Wood Glue be comparable to the TiteBond product?

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I believe so, but I've been using Titebond II almost exclusively. I buy it by the gallon. ;-)
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our Peacekeepers
stones wrote:

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Mark Simpson wrote:

It's great for the skin too. Really? "Yes, you're soaking in it!" ;)
It makes a good floor wax and dessert topping, too. ;)
-John
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Small point to remember - aliphatic adhesives (e.g. Titebond) shrink as they dry.

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Apply them in several thin ever wider layers.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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...and here's the proof! www.rocketmaterials.org
The substrate always fails before the bond.
-- Drake "Doc" Damerau www.rocketmaterials.org NEPRA President NAR Section 614 NAR 79986 L3 www.nepra.com Remove "My Shorts" to reply
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