the myth revealed

There is NO federal law that says that rocket engines have to be certified prior to use. although on the NAR website it states:

"State and federal law require all rocket engines to be independently tested before they may be sold in the United States"

As far as NAR/TRA motor certification is concerned.They are ONLY state laws in the case of the states who have adopted the IFC/NFPA codes.In fact the NAR/TRA would like you to believe that uncertfied engines are illegal. Not quite....

The only states where this is law are the following States that have adopted the IFC which adopts NFPA 1122/1125/1127

Alaska Arkansas Florida Georgia Idaho Indiana Minnesota New Jersey New York North Carolina South Carolina Utah Virginia Washington Wyoming

Only in the above few states is it illegal to purchase or use "uncertfied" or "unregulated" rocket engines. Why? Because they are the ONLY states that Have adopted in full the IFC, which adoptes the NFPA codes.

If you live in the following states and ARE NOT a NAR/TRA member, you must still conduct your model rocket and high power rocket activities under these IFC/NFPA Codes... Why? because the IFC/NFPA codes are state law.

IF you live in the following states and are a NAR/TRA member, you must follow the IFC/NFPA Codes

States that have adopted the IFC which adopts NFPA 1122/1125/1127

Alaska Arkansas Florida Georgia Idaho Indiana Minnesota New Jersey New York North Carolina South Carolina Utah Virginia Washington Wyoming

IF you are a NAR/TRA member you will be in violation of the NAR/TRASafety Codes if you do use uncertified or unregulated motors in a state that has adopted the IFC/NFPA codes....

IF you are not a NAR/TRA member you will still be in violation of the IFC/NFPA codes if you use uncertified or unregulated motors, because the IFC/NFPA codes are state laws.

In the following states, local jurisdictions (cities,counties,etc) may have adopted some or part of IFC.They may or may not have adopted the NFPA codes independently of the IFC.

In those local jurisidictions which have adopted the IFC/NFPA codes, your compliance or uncompliance remains the same as above.

On the other hand, in those local jurisdictions where NO IFC/NFPA codes are in effect, it is perfectly legal to purchase and use uncertified or unregulated motors in your amateur or sport rocketry activities.

You will not be violating any local,state or federal laws if you purchase and use uncertified or unregulated rocket motors in these states.(this ONLY applies if you are NOT a NAR/TRA member)

Alabama Arizona Colorado Illinois Iowa Kansas Maine Michigan Mississippi Missouri Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Pennsylvania Tennessee Texas

None of the following states have adopted the IFC code in whole, but still may have adopted the NFPA codes independently of the IFC(in whole or part)

It is again perfectly legal to purchase and use uncertified or unregulated rocket motors in these states as long as you are not a member of the NAR/TRA.

California Connecticut Delaware DC Hawaii Kentucky Louisiana Maryland Massachusetts Montana New Mexico Oregon Rhode Island South Dakota Vermont West Virginia Wisconsin

So the question becomes this:

How will the NAR/TRA interpret the above?

DO the NAR/TRA have any regulatory authority? Yes they do. BUT ONLY in those states that have adopted the IFC/NFPA codes in Full.

The NAR/TRA has NO regulatory authority outside of the IFC/NFPA codes and their own NAR/TRA membership.

The only regualtory authority the NAR/TRA has, is that which is given to them in the IFC/NFPA codes.

IF a state has not adopted those IFC/NFPA codes, then it stands to reason that the NAR/TRA has NO regulatory authority in those states.

Therefore it is perfectly legal for a company to manufacture ( from a non IFC/NFPA compliant state), rocket motors and then sell those rocket motors in non IFC/NFPA compliant states, to rocketeers that are not members of the NAR/TRA.

In a nutshell, the NAR/TRA only has regulatory authority over YOUR rocket activities IF you are NAR/TRA member living in a IFC/NFPA compliant state....or a non NAR/TRA member living in a IFC/NFPA compliant state.

What IF you are a NAR/TRA member living in a non-compliant IFC/NFPA state?

The NAR/TRA only has authority over you when you are participating in a NAR/TRA activities as NAR/TRA member....in your own personal rocketry activties, they have no regulatory authority over your private amateur,sport rocketry activities. The NAR/TRA will try and tell you they 2 are the same, but they are not. You have the right to choose not to join and adhere to NAR/TRA regulations. You have the right to choose to join the NAR/TRA and adhere to their regulations.

the bottomline is this: the only time and place the NAR/TRA has any authority over your rocketry activities if when you are a member of the NAR/TRA AND you live in a IFC/NFPA compliant state OR you are not a NAR/TRA member living in a IFC/NFPA compliant state.....

shockie B)

Reply to
shockwaveriderz
Loading thread data ...

... subject to limitations arising from SFM, county, ordinances etc. (albeit unrelated to the inapplicable NFPA code)

your TRA/NAR membership is not pertinent to the legality of your use of uncertified or unregulated rocket motors in states where the IFC/NFPA is not adopted. It is only pertinent to your compliance or violation of the TRA/NAR safety codes and membership agreements.

to rephrase, in non-IFC/NFPA states, regardless of TRA/NAR membership, you are not violating any local, state or federal laws if you purchase and use uncertified or unregulated rocket motors; that is assuming no limitations are imposed by SFM, county, ordinances etc.

your TRA/NAR membership is not pertinent to the _legality_ of your use ...

(see above)

their authority is limited to certification of users using HPR motors, as well as to motor certification for HPR motors used in that state

this authority is non-exclusive, although only TRA/NAR are currently recognized by the NFPA. But NFPA codes allow for AHJ's recognizing other certification organizations. AHJ's may be landowners or insurance inspectors; the deciding factor will be whether SFM, county city fire officials claim overriding authority thereby making them responsible for accepting or not other certification organizations.

note that the while the TRA safety code requires that members may "use only certified commercially made rocket motors", it does not stipulate the source of that certification. Hence any motor certification performed by a certifying organization acceptable to the AHJ would comply with the safety code.

the NAR safety code does stipulate the source of the certication as follows:

"I will use only commercially-made, NAR-certified rocket motors in the manner recommended by the manufacturer."

yes

yes, which is non-exclusive certification authority, and the authority granted to Range Safety Officers (RSO) to manage launch activities

yes, other than that "authority" granted them by their membership by agreement; e.g. to voluntarily conform to the certification requirements and the safety code; but non-compliance carries no penalties outside of the organization (no criminal penalties)

subject to limitations arising from SFM, county, ordinances etc., yes

yes

no

in the TRA membership agreement that you sign, you affirm that you "agree to pursue my advanced rocketry activities in conformance with the Association's By-laws and Safety Code"

and in the NAR membership agreement that you sign, you affirm that you "pledge to conduct all my sport rocketry activities in compliance with the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code and the NAR High Power Safety Code"

this is your agreement regardless of the IFC/NFPA adoption status of your state

this is an "authority" granted them by your membership agreement; e.g. to voluntarily conform to the safety code (which in turn mandates motor and user certification); but non-compliance carries no penalties outside of the organization (no criminal penalties)

exactly true

not exactly, see comments on membership agreements, above

unless the AHJ recogizes an alternate certification authority, in which case TRA/NAR can pound sand

references:

Tripoli HPR Safety Code

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NAR Safety Code
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TRA membership agreement
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NAR membership agreement
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see also my 2003-12-19 12:53:09 PST post in thread "Re: USR vs Aerotech" for the NFPA cites relevant to AHJs and their acceptance of certifying organizations

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Are you saying that EX launches are illegal in any state that has adopted NFPA 1122/1125/1127?

amateur,sport

Reply to
David

no shockie B)

Reply to
shockwaveriderz

"David" wrote in news:gh7Fb.177097$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.southeast.rr.com:

Homemade motors fall outside the scope of NFPA 1122/1127, and are therefor not limited by those codes.

Reply to
David W.

david w: exactly..but commercially made non certified/nonregulated do fall within the scope of the IFC/NFPA codes.... the national organizations and perhaps the IFC/NFPA compliant states themseleves consider commercially made non certfied/nonregulated motors to be illegal.....for use by both their membership and non members in IFC/NFPA compliant states.....

You don't have to be a member of one of the national organizations to be under IFC/NFPA jurisdiction.....you just have to live in one of the approximately 15 states that are IFC/NFPA compliant..... shockie B)

Reply to
shockwaveriderz

It is my understanding that all rocket motors for sale in California must be certified by the state fire marshal.

Craig Craig R. Saunders, crs at MaxThrust.net,

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News and Information for model rockets and high-power rocketry

Reply to
Craig R. Saunders

Offsite.

There is no restriction from exchange of value at a Pyro-Op 2 launch.

Furthermore motors made under a CSFM permit are legal for as long as they float around so the manufacturer would be wise to make PALLETS of them.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

craig: I meant "under applicable state laws".....so yes you are correct....... they may be uncerted or unregulated in say NZ or AZ but if those same uncerted/unregulated engines was to be sold in CA, the CSFM of course would have to certifed and classified by the CSFM.... this is a CA restriction only....

shockie B)

unregulated

Reply to
shockwaveriderz

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