[FFT]philosophical musings: self regulation

Over the past 3 years since I returned to rocketry I have heard those that trumpet "self-regulation", as the be-all and end-all as far as the reason
why we don't need any additional "outside" interference or regulation . Self-regulation being that we will all restrict ourselves from doing anything that against the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code.
What do we as a "community" do to people in this hobby if they interpret the safety codes in a manner not consistent with the majority view OR willfully violate provisions of the Safety Code?.
For example, the NAR Model Rocketry Safety Code specifically says the following:
Motors. I will use only certified, commercially-made model rocket motors,......
The above passage is pretty straightforward as to what it says and means...
Lets say for the purpose of this musing, you are NAR member and you live in a state that has adopted the various NFPA codes.... and you use uncertified, non-commercial motors..... On your own time.... Lets get this straight...you are a NAR member and live in a NFPA state and you use non-certified, non-commercial-made model rocket motors on your own....
Is this person violating the NAR Safety Code? And IF this a violation NAR Safety Code, what potential sanction(s) do we apply to this person?
shockie B)
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Well, I haven't in all that time and more. We don't need any more regulation because we live in a free country and we use our own codes for manners of safety depending on the type of rocketry, biking, moutain climbing, racing or whatever we are doing.
this is not regulation. government regulates. Bodies sanction.

No, only Model rockets are coded to the NAR model rocket safety code.

the
willfully
public flogging comes to mind.
however, in the case of rocket wickery, we will see if she or he will drown in a pond of water tied up. If they drown , they didn't violate the safetry code. If they don't their guilty of code violation and get flogged.

For model rocket activites.

means...
Yep, Bunnies told you many times exactly what it means.

in
My muse is not PG-13 rated, lets leave her out of it ;-)

I'm not doing model rocketry, and NFPA is not authoritive over it. I'm not doing EX either. I'm doing armature rocketry. (pun intended)

NAR
Bunny has told you he is not violating the sagety code.
I sure wish you had been flying during the late 80 and early 90s. You might have got it.
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Point.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:00:49 GMT, "shockwaveriderz"

This has beeb discussed before.
I see why you put FFT in the subject. Moronics crap like this needs flames.
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the only moronic crap I see is YOU Phil.... Instead on spewing forth some moronic crap of your own, why not point me to the thread where this has been discussed before....? But thats asking you to be civilized and you couldn't be civilized in this forum if it you tried...
shockie B)
wrote:

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ok - I'll help you. Try this www.google.com click groups
You are turning into the Iz of NAR. Always looking for something wrong. I'd say moron sums it up pretty well.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:08:50 GMT, "shockwaveriderz"

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phil: so now you try and smear me by comparing me to Iz......I am not trying to find anything wrong about the NAR ....I was asking a philosophical question..and as usual since yuou can only throw accusations around , you just show what a lame person you are...
so phil lets see if you can carry on an intellignet conversation with out you going into asshole mode..
what would you do if you knew somebody had violated the safety code?
would you: Do nothing,turn a blind eye, since you ain't the rocketry police?
and what happens to our sel-professed self regulation when 100's of people see violations and do nothing? self regulation becomes meaningless...
shockie B)
2.
wrote:

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You see a person blow a stop light, and you do what ?
do you chase after them ? Most people don't.
You see a person lie on a business form at work that could risk the company a fine.
Do you tell the boss, or tell the EPA ?
You see a person running out of a bank with a mask on and run into a nearby hood.
Do you call on a cell phone and tell them what hood you saw them go into ? Most people do.
You are in a Cafe in a red state. A waco comes in and starts shooting people. Your wife is carrying loaded while packed and stacked. what do you have her do ?
So, as in real life, I would say what one should do depends on the infraction.
Most things in life are various shades of gray, not black and white.
I learned this while working in law enforcement a long time ago.
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almax: We are not talking about all those other examples that have nothing to do with model rocketry.
and your end result is: "I would say what one should do depends on the infraction"
Ok how serious to you is it if a person or persons use uncertfied, non-commercial motors for their own private use?.
On your scale of seriousness of infractions, how serious would this be to you personally? what would you do?
I am asking a simple question looking for some guidance here
shockie B)

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Not at all serious. In fact fun.
doing that is not model rocketry and no NAR code was violated. Bunny has told you this many times.

Even if it was a NAR code infraction, Since the NAR is not a governing body, it's still not serious. You might want to tattle on them up to the NAR tribunal.
But since the NAR tribunal says the above is not an infaction, then that's out of the picture.

And you've been told the answer by the grand pooba many times over the last 2 years, so I don't think your looking for guidance at all, sorry.
al max
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so bunny has stated that a person who lives in a nfpa state can use non certfied commerical motors in their own personal use? Even when the applicable nfpa code says otherwise? Would not that person then be in violation of the nfpa codes in his state?
So Bunny said that we can't violate the NAR safety Code but we can violate the NFPA codes of our individual states? Is that what he said ?
I guess I'll email bunny and ask him this specific question....
shockie B)

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Be my guest.
Shockie, the NFPA codes do not govern Amature rocketry , only model and HPR, remember ? Many have posted on this and you know that.
Bunny has told you many times in your emails that no NAR code has been violated. He has nothing to say about other codes.
you bounce between NAR codes then NFPA codes in your arguements.
then is my last post, you've asked many times.
In fact, the NAR had to change the wording on their membership cards you were so worried about it on the signature line.
Were you worried about it last year cause you wanted to make your own motors and not get kicked out of the NAR ? or did you want a ruling so you could tattle on someone and get them kicked out ?
bye for this thread.
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The NFPA codes need to be exemptions not regulations to KILL all future Shockies (Terry Dean).

Yes.
I wonder if I shold post his emails?
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

an asshole like you would.
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wrote:

Poor Jerry
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Shocked:

Sounds like proposal fodder. I "wish" consumer certs were mere merit badges.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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WHICH Fed law??

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Dave Grayvis wrote:

Yea, it means JI's mode of operation, as demonstrated over the past few years, hasn't changed and, the need for continued refusal of membership is still an appropriate measure: At least as for as TRA membership is concerned... Just my opinion; not sure if it is shared by anyone else..(:-)
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wrote:

There couldn't be more than 10,000 people in the world that agree with you. Put another way a dozen or less agree with Jerry.
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says...

Korey Kline?

Very serious for toy rockets.
Ever thought of it that way? As in, maybe plenty of people have some sense of proportion, and in the grand scheme of things toy rockets don't weigh too heavily (both literally and figuratively)?
What bad behavior (in the real world) that a whistleblower might report compares to, say, launching a rocket with a modified delay element? Illegally dumping hazardous waste? Sexual harassment? Spitting in the water fountain, maybe?
--
Tweak

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