JC, TRA and the future of rocketry

I seriously doubt John went to the Prefect before going to the land owner.

John definitely has an ax to grind re TRA. The hobby has not been good to him.

1. He was very freaked when we got busted for possession of rocket motors in the PRK (1990). He had all his motors with him, about 00 worth, and they were almost lost to the legal system.
2. He allowed EX motors at 'his' launches in south GA even before EX was allowed by TRA. He last allowed an EX motor in April 1997 at one of the last launches held at the field.
3. He was doing a good job as TMT chair when he brought up the TRA bylaws issue. As a result, he was removed from TMT by Tripoli BOD.
4. John interprets laws/regulations as 'prohibited unless specifically allowed'. In this country, it's supposed to be 'allowed unless specifically prohibited'.
5. At the time, GA had not adopted NFPA 1127 so there was no difference (in the law) between EX and commercially manufactured motors. GA adopted NFPA

1. The largest motor John has successfully flown is a K900 (1800 N-s). He has also flown a 2 stage (J to I). He has not flown a rocket since at least

1. He was knowingly in violation of GA law as of Jan 2003. In conversations with Mr. John Montgomery (State Fire Marshal), there were 16 people in GA with LEUP and storage, I was the only one with a state license.

Item 1 got him looking into the laws concerning rocketry; item 3 turned him against Tripoli. He eventually reached the point where he would do anything if it would damage Tripoli regardless of the collateral damage. However, he would bend the rules if it suited him. (The 1997 launch was a certified motor launch.)

I am not going to post again on this topic.

Tom

Not at all. When he found out who the insurer was, he called them and told them EX was illegal. The insurance company didn't agree and maintained coverage.

Tom

If the Bureau of Mines (or whoever does the testing) is anything like UL, it would cost several thousand per motor type. I've dealt with UL and it costs almost $1000/year just to *maintain* a listing.

Tom

If you were to go camping, and 'accidentally' started a forest fire which caused a million $$ in damages, you best have your butt covered. That's just one example which could also happen in rocketry. You could be living in a dorm when that happens, yes? Old boss was charged with a forest fire, they believed it started in his campsite (he doesn't believe it was them), and they had photographs of the picnic table including the pack of cigarettes on the table. They were going after the full liability on his homeowner's policy. What if he didn't have liability?

There was that car being towed behind an RV that started some canyon fire (guy didn't stop even though he was being honked at non-stop) because a tire went flat and the rim was sparking. They were trying to get the fine down to the homeowner's liability coverage, but clearly he didn't have to own a home since he had one to take around.

The worst case is if you cause someone to become permanently injured (not kilt). Someone on life support is going to drain tremendous resources, you. Say you're drinking with some buds and the court finds that someway you're responsible that the bud ends up in a bed plugged into a machine. If you don't have a liabilty policy, how are you going to defend yourself in court, let alone pay for damages. Them guys don't work for free unless you're OJ.

Of course, if you'd rather be living in a van,.. down by the river.

Call your agent and see.

Joel. phx

Funny, virtually NONE of the launches I attend ask me to do so. I guess that's the difference between flying under an organization with real insurance coverage, and flying under one that doesn't.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I think you've got it backwards. The fanatical, obsessive individuals, starting with John Cato himself, started when John discovered that the organization was making up its own internal rules, and not running itself according to the rules it had put in place for its own operation. The organization has been broken for over a decade. The fanatics are a result of the internal corruption. Remove the problems, come clean, and the criticism WILL stop.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

So there is no reason to maintain secrecy then?

Interesting post Tom.

Tripoli claims uncertified motors are excluded. At alaunch that is NOT EX and IS Tripoli BTW.

Is that false?

Jerry

F A L S E

Trusted by who? Only the last few remaining members? What about the population external to the club who also depend on motor certs to be valid???

Jerry

So what is YOUR position as TRA BoT member......

The consumer. In my case, I trust NAR S&T.

Alan

Izzy,

How would you like it if some person with a personal vendetta gassing a club, for whatever reason, went around to the club's launch site owners and ALSO all neighbors of that site, trying their best to "Chicken Little" scare the owners or neighbors, in order to get the launches shut down?

Because it would not be that hard for someone to be successful in getting sites shut down, even if their stories were far more based on achieving their vendetta than actual facts.

This is just what Cato did. He knew damned well that by shaking things up, he was risking losing the site for EVERYBODY. He didn?t care how many got screwed in the process, as long as his intended targets were among them.

No, I take that back. He didn?t care who got screwed, period. He said it didn?t matter if the whole world was against him (or words to that effect).

Even a good architect should know you don't try to shake a building to knock "only" the top floor down without risking the whole thing collapsing....

Would you want someone to start doing that sort of crap with YOUR club's sites? Really and truly? Trying to scare them and make them uncomfortable with rocketry as a whole since the owners (and neighbors) didn't have that much of a grasp of the difference? And if your club lost their site due to similar fear-mongering by a "I am right, everybody else is wrong, to hell with the consequences since it?s not even going to affect me anyway" zealot on a vendetta mission, whoever did that would not be at fault, right?

You honestly would not feel the slightest bit uncomfortable if someone tried doing that with the sites of all the clubs you flew with? You think the other people in your clubs would feel comfortable if someone tried such a campaign?

Cato, and Irvine too - my what a duo you have hitched your wagon to.

- George Gassaway

It's also what Tripoli leaders, including Chuck Rogers did at the Lucerne launches to bring the unffiliated 3000 attendee launches to under 50 users within a year. So Cato is not alone and in fact since Rogers did it in 1992-93 suspect Cato followed after the example was long set by Rogers.

So Rogers screwed FAR more people than Cato too.

It is also a crime.

I already stated that I did not agree with JC acting unilaterally, that other clubs should haev been represented, and in fact that a meeting in preparation for that which was held with the siteowner should have been held so that a consensus about resolution could be presented.

- iz

GCGassaway wrote:

Stealing is a crime. I was NOT charged with nor convicted of a crime because I had WRITTEN PERMISSION IN MY POSESSION.

The jury later awarded me ALL assets of that partnership. It was my property 7 ways from sunday so you just committed libel.

He said when he would be there, that's when we arrived, he arrived late. We had already loaded the truck as agreed. Several of the other partners, NOT just me.

Libel again.

Libel again. After he unilaterally punched me **I** called the police. I waited for their arrival.

Both Frank and I have "new suspects". I had a shockingly hard aliby.

Just write me a check for $20k and save us all the trouble of my forcing it out of you.

Jerry

The subject was TRA.

But knowing the irregularities of TRA certs that NAR was informed of by many including John Cato, they continued to list the illegal certs on THEIR list as well.

Jerry

Which is why we have TRA, NAR, and CAR testing. It may not be a perfect system, but as others have confirmed it is several orders of magnitude cheaper than paying UL (or similar) to do it.