JC, TRA and the future of rocketry

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed · 2003-11-23T19:19:34+00:00

[ cross-posted from ROL ]John Cato's' responses inline (posted with permission). As you will see from his closing remark, he will not be engaging this interactively so debate efforts to debate are wasted.John speaks with authority with respect to historical events, about which almost everyone is ignorant. That handful of people who know the truth will have to transcend their own agendas (what JC refers to as 'rationalization') to grasp his motivesI will acknowledge in advance, that some will feel that this is an inopportune time to resurrect the past. Especially a past that may put the "experimental" branch of the hobby in a negative light.The fact is that the deficiencies in national leadership has put, and will continue to put the hobby at risk. Deficiencies which precipitated BATFE involvement.If we are to proceed into a future where amateur rocketry in all its manifestations is recognized as safe and legal, we must take responsibility for creating that reality and consensus.This is what JC is saying. This is what John Wickman is leading us in. That is the "relationship" which eluded Ray.JC admits that his concerns re: noncommercial motor manufacture are personal. But those concerns, and others, must be addressed in the minds of congress, so that that future can be realized.- izRay Dunak > Anyone who screws with someone else's launch has serious problems, to say the least.Like who? Those TRA members up north of me who jeopardized the financial future of the landowner (theirs and mine - one in the same) and the future of my site here by holding a clandestine and illegal 'EX' launch - not telling a single soul outside the 13 who attended (including the other two clubs whose future there was put in just as much jeopardy as my own site)?Is that 'who'?Yeah - I agree -- they've got serious problems. > I find it curious that you should mention Mr. Cato this way, since by his reckoning all EX rocketry is illegal (and he apparently feels the same about HPR). Kind of puts...

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W. E. Fred Wallace 22 years ago

Jerry has refused to do as you suggest, although, almost verbatim, it was suggested to him some time ago. Hell, I have always liked his motors; once upon a time I flew lots of them, won't touch them now as they can't be legally shipped in commerce. TRA and Nar certification, who cares, I sure don't. On the other hand, receiving Jerry's illegally shipped class 1 hazmat via UPS, USPS, or other common carrier, not worth it. However, listening to Jerry or his mouth pieces weasel around and flame me, priceless. (;-)

Fred

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

No there isn't. Amateur INCLUDES making motors or not.

HPR dis-includes making motors.

MR dis-includes making motors.

Of course!

Jerry

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

No it would have been more accurqate if YOU said jerry's subcontractors make kickbutt propellant.

What HE said was correct. I make kick butt motors :)

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

I hope you can justify this libel and trade libel in light of:

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Jerry

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Kevin Trojanowski 22 years ago

Pot! From your own site:

Especially intriguing considering the following:

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W. E. Fred Wallace 22 years ago

Here we go again Jerry: deception, fraudulent deception etc. etc. I stand behind what I said and you have quoted. You haven't the balls to take me or anyone on rec. to court for "libel and or trade libel". Please, please, please pretty please, let me be the first.... Better yet, pick a motor, any US Rockets motor up through, let's say a K reloadable, preferable a fast load; bill me for it, ship it to me, via what you believe to be a common carrier, that you can legally use to ship. When I receive the shipment, I'll verify the legality of the shipment with DOT. If it's a clean shipment, I will publish the fact on RMR, ROL and any other list you so desire, and in addition, I'll pay double for the motor. Come on Jerry, lets see if we can make something relevant out of what has got to be the longest running spinning wheel thread in RMR history. (;-)

Jerry Irv> >

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

So unlike TRA it *IS* possible to see the FULL POLICY. Hmmm.

Some people understand the role of a fiduciary. Be glad to train Brucie. I bet he has not been trusted with millions of dollars under management.

Jerry

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

You know the ordering process.

Use it.

I offered to send you a crate of 19 98mm M loads. You said if I could ship legally, I said I would then you changed your mind. Make good on your offer.

Jerry

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

I am curious. What does this element entail. Exactly?

Jerry

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W. E. Fred Wallace 22 years ago

I have no use for 19 M motors, then or now, you made the offer and I never excepted. However one K motor I can use now.... The current offer is on the table and if you got the balls, take me up on it. You know I like your motors, what have you got to lose??? Either your legal or your not, prove it and do a little dance, take a little chance. You can consider this a "public ordering process", in front of all your friends and folks who know you and I on RMR. Come on, what have you got to loose.

Shipping address; W. E . Fred Wallace

8810 Pensacola Pl. Upper Marlboro, MD 20772

Fred

Jerry Irv> >

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Jerry Irvine 22 years ago

There is no "public ordering process".

There is an ordering process where by you properly identify yourself. If you do not want to identify yourself you are free to buy from errortech or one of their dealers and supply a LEUP despite 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 and receive that abuse if you so desire.

Do a little dance, take a little chance.

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W. E. Fred Wallace 22 years ago

The offer stands, take it or leave it. Improvise, adapt, and overcome. As for as who I am, you know good and well who I am. You sure as hell didn't have any trouble wanting to ship before. You just tell me what need?? Copy of my DL, LEUP, etc. You need to get ready to fish or cut bait....

BTW, from your US Rockets ordering web page:

MOTORS OR CUSTOM CHECKLIST: Please note that due to NEW abusive government regulations added WITHOUT legal process we are not shipping motors until they pull their head out

of their *** and return our civil rights to us, or

we force it out of them through litigation. Yes we

are pissed. And rightfully so. 30 years of cooperation and THIS is what we get in return.

So what is your process for ordering and shipping motors???

Fred

Jerry Irv> >

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badbill 22 years ago

Blackhawk R&D wrote:

BTW, I meant to post this also.. it's for john cato , for cato only.

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Bill Davenport

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Bob Kaplow 22 years ago

TRA insurance may currently covers EX. It didn't back then. And it NEVER covered uncertified commercial motors, such as the ones that were fraudulently declared certified by TRA TMT.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

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Bob Kaplow 22 years ago

When TRA first created the term "EX" that is EXACTLY what they were doing. Slipping home made motors past insurance, site owners, FAA, and everyone else as if they were HPR.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

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