Keep your Launch field , Here is how

JD

I tell you what I will do Mr. Hate! I will pay your fee. In exchange, you run for Prefect or NAR President and show up at every launch as a good officer should.

Does this mean you don't think its a good idea? I just figure if it is a good idea then all clubs everywhere should be doing it. If not, then.......

Robert Mr. Hate ;-)

I've been president of our club for 3 years. I've NEVER missed a launch. I'm the first one to get there and the last one to leave. We have low dues, launch fees and the landowner loves us even though we have over 100 people at our launches.

I wear no crown. In fact, I get the brunt of everyone's complaints. Not because there's much to complain about, but because you just can't make everyone happy.

I am the webmaster of the clubs website. not for glory, but because it needs to be done and I know how. (Ditto on the rocket materials gig)

I do it, only because the club needs it to be done.

THAT's what a good officer should do.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

You failed to mention Joseph, Papa Doc, Robert Mugabe and my favorite of all time Calligula. Must be a complete list and I have omitted many more I am sure.

buy a parcel of land up to the largest motor you want the club to fly post a bond in lieu of insurance. build a full sized magazine on site. build concrete launch pads on site. refreshement stans optional build a meeting place/workshop on the site. pick anyone besides tater to be president (life commitment preferred) Make sure it is 5 miles from my house (or less) Negotiate with the FAA for permanent TFR above the site Offer CSI free testing of any and all motors they produce

Different areas of the nation have different problems. The state I grew up I did not have to get permission to add a porch or to cut down a tree. Here you beg to do anything when comes to your property in NAZI Massachusetts. The rules have been designed to meet the concerns of the corporation that controls the land. It is there land and we are their guests. They can throw us of at will. There is concern that if we step down as the B.O.D. that the field will be pulled by the corporate officers. Rather than risk that, we have stayed on to maintain continuity because we want people to have a place to fly. However, it is asses such as yourself that has made it very tempting for us to dissolve Frontier Rocketry Inc. and let the field go as it may. I can hope on a plane and fly anywhere I want whenever I want. Most people can't do that. This was why we secured this field to provide others with a chance to fly without having to stay in a hotel over night and drive 300 miles to fly elsewhere. All our efforts have been to meet one goal - Provide flyers with the largest field possible that allows the most actives and that is relatively easy to access. We have done that. It is a pity, Mr. Hate that you do not understand that reality.

I served as Prefect because there was a need. I expected nothing for serving in the post. Olivier, Mike and I have done our best to ensure the survival of a field that can host M flights and possibly Ns in the future. We, frankly, have been stunned at the animosity and anger over rules put in place to keep the surrounding neighbors and officials on our side.

We stand by the reorganization because it has to be so to hold the field. Each year we have access to the field is a victory for amateur rocketry. It is a shame you fail to see that. The B.O.D. has done its job. We have worn multiple hats and, now, have attempted to pass most of the authority over to others. We have made some stipulation that are not "show stoppers" by any means and we have charged a fee that, in itself, is not a "show stopper". Rather that work with us, you and others like you have attacked and balked at a $45 fee. Sir, I personally was out several hundred dollars to cover launches that had not generated enough revenue to cover the launch fee. In fact, I am the one who makes up that difference whenever it occurs, as I am the person who will cover the deductible should it not be met by either NAR or Tripoli clubs. I can't tell you just how disheartening it is to have someone protest $45 when I have laid out much more than that and I am paying the same fee. I know Olivier and Mike feel the same way. Mike had spent days putting together the first launch system and spent several hundred dollars of his own money to pay for the parts and never complained about it. He was saddened to see members throw the equipment into crates dirty, with worn clips and burnt wires never offering to clean it up or repair it, but he never regretted supplying the equipment or spending the money, but he will not build another unit.

What equipment have you supplied, what time have you given, when have you assisted in any project members have been involved in? Yet, you are the one screaming the loudest. I honestly cannot phantom the mind of a Liberal Democrat. I might as well be trying to communicate with blob from Xeon.

"Robert DeHate" wrote in message news:bv3tbm$3sk$ snipped-for-privacy@www.flugmodellbau.de...

Hello, Arnold - I'll agree that many of your listed rules make some sense in that context - I can see how it would make sense to have a single "negotiating entity" so the owners have a steady "point of contact", and it sounds like you had to agree to a complex and finicky set of stipulations in order to get access to use the site, so such an entity would want to be sure it had the authority to ensure that the conduct of launches in practice actually was as promised to the owners: this probably goes a long way to explaining some of the provisions that are giving some posters a "control trip" vibe.

I can also understand that you would want to keep a strict list of what was flown, and a record of altitudes - if someone tried to make scandal about "overflying the authorized waiver altitude" or something, I can see that you might want be able to pull out a detailed list and counter such a claim with the recorded facts.

However, what's up with the provision that a level II certification is required to fly F through K motors, and a level III certification for L motors (rule 16)? This would seem to be a bit of a "show stopper" for anyone who wanted to do a "level certification attempt" flight, no? (Or are such flights considered to be too much of an unusual risk to be allowed at this particular field?)

-dave w

THE CHOICE: (and remember, death is not an option)

BATFE or the ROCKETRY TALIBAN?

Yes, this is really THE question. So HOW could you ever get an L2 if you already need it to fly L1 motors? And HOW do you get the L1 in the first place if you have to have an L2 before you could even get an L1?

This is not just illogical. It is ANTI-LOGIC. It makes my head spin just thinking about it.

This seems to imply that entry-level LMR/HPR fliers aren't wanted... I was flying F through H (and once in a while an I) for almost a year before I even built a rocket big enough to be practical for a level 2 attempt. I guess I wouldn't have been welcome to fly (anything bigger than an E) at Frontier's field until I'd found another field in the area big enough to fly a level 2 attempt.

-dave w

For what it's worth, that was an error in the first draft of the rules. It was corrected at the 2004 membership meeting. Certification is only required as per NAR and TRA rules.

Ah, that sounds more reasonable... as I said, the rest of the rules don't sound too unreasonable, given that maintaining a good relationship with the site owner is evidently an unusually complex task at this particular field.

-dave w

... or Idi or Manuel or Pol ...

or Bruce!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

If I ever had the money, that's pretty close to what I'd do. Buy a several square mile sod farm. Set it up like many of the private aero park communities. Sell lots along the perimiter, probably clustered towards the 4 corners (i.e. outside the maximum circle that fits in the square). One corner gets a hobby shop. Another corner a barn / clubhouse with meeting room, workshop, etc. Permanent installation of launch site for the complete range of sport rocketry. Add model and even full scale aircraft; maybe a pond for RC boats, and a track for RC cars, and open it up to modellers other than rockets.

Then put up a sign that says "No ball playing of any kind" and one that says "Bill of Rights enforcement zone, Federal agents keep out". Set up a kool-aide stand for any one who can't read those two signs.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

:)

This is understood. All clubs do this

You are making this stuff up. If they were dealing with a club, rather than a dictator, then there would be no difference if it was you or Oliver or anyone that was voted into office for the club.

Arnold, is there truly anyone that wants you in this hobby? Maybe I should talk to Bruce about pulling your L3 cert since you violated the waiver on that flight.

If asking the tough questions makes me an ass then fine. But if you do go away we all know you will give the land owner a nasty call to ensure the field is not used by anyone.

You use name calling and retoric to try and deflect attention away from the unconstructive things you do to elevate yourself in this hobby. When will you learn its not about you or me, its about having fun? When did you stop having fun?

Arnold, why bring up their names when the rules were created by you, maybe they agreed, but only under deress. Reading the original post it is clear the rules were worded the same as most things that come out of your mouth.

Ya, I can see that, that is why the last launch was cancelled. Why? Because of Arnold, nice job buddy.

?? Ummm Ok ??

Good, step aside and let the club run the field!

All the work that is, but please let me keep my authority over "EVERYONE".

You see, this , as well as all your actions, show how stupid you really are. Why was there not a dues increase if the club could not cover expenses? You do not loose money for years then jack the rates! That is just stupid. Sorry but there is no other word to describe it. Maybe someone else can explain why he (and it was always him in control) didn't raise club fees, or launch fees, to cover expenses. I just dont understand.

In

Again Arnold, it is too bad that you ran the club into the ground and now are running away from it to cover your tracks. He should have been paid out of the club account, as all other clubs do. You mishandled the club and are the only person to blame.

I am vocal because I know I am right. And you are wrong. I would love a field in NE that people can fly at. But many people will not fly at that field simply because you are there. That is the simple and honest truth.

I have no idea what you are saying here. But I guess you still cant, and never will face the fact.... And you ask yourself, what fact is that? You know, and everyone that has ever had contact with you knows. I am sorry you have the attitude you have. Have you looked into therapy?

Robert

appreciation

I guess that is a no from Arnold. As always.