[TRA motor certs] USR

As you all know there has been an ongoing discussion of TRA motor cert policy as it relates to USR (branded motors).

On the issue of DOT paperwork several "speculations" have been offered as to what TRA actually says after rejecting the paper work. Everything from fraud papers, to OEM name not matching the USR brand, challenges of ownership despite written proof and even law cites supporting it.

To date the only efforts TRA has engaged in has been direct contacts with DOT in an active effort to get the paperwork INVALIDATED so they will be able to claim it is in some way not valid. This disregards the fact that if it is "invalidated" that would mean it was VALID prior to the invalidation.

The strategy of TRA to intentionally invalidate any government document is disturbing.

Then on the issue of ATF permits, we all now know they are NOT required by law, by NFPA since it does NOT override law, and is ONLY required by arbitrary club rule by people who cannot read and understand the law. Even when explained to them in detail by their own attorneys in writing in minute detail.

Furthermore a submission was made with a proper LEMP and even that submission was refused.

DEMAND (public notice)

TRA (and each agent, assign, member or representative) is hereby notified to cease and desist all contacts with DOT as I have no pending application for motors to be certified with TRA. Disclose all such DOT contacts to date to Jerry Irvine personally.

TRA, State when you consider the MOST RECENT application for motor certifications to have occured, whether or not successful.

TRA has gone on the record of regularly following these threads without replying to them "in public". Great reply to me in private.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine
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Jerry, Will not the DOT come down on your side. TRA has no pull with the DOT. If the paperwork is good, it will be good. Nothing TRA says can change that. Plus, YOU should know what your most recent application was.

Reply to
Bullpup

You know that there's ways and then there's ways... a lot depends on how you ask the question... look at what seems to have happened to Fred W. - he apparently managed to give whoever he talked to at DOT the impression that he was under the impression that something fishy was going on... and people ended up spooking each other with nervous noises about "government investigation".

Fred may very well have been attempting a fair and honest query to the regulators: imagine if someone made a similar contact in a more biased frame of mind...

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

Nothing happened to me. As for as what impression was given to DOT, you were not involved and you are therefore ignorant of whatever impression was given, if any. In any case, Jerry provided all the documentation I presented to DOT, (at Jerry's request). So, any fallout from that information is directly attributed to Jerry. Also, if anyone was spooked, it probably saved them a shit load of trouble, in the long run...

See above.. However, as a result of the so called query and additional information that permeates the band width, I am biased now. So much so, I require verifiable proof of his ability to legally ship his motors before I would purchase motors from Jerry. BTE, here is a little taste of what you can find on the net if you "go fetch", as Jerry is so fond of telling folks.

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Fred

>
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace

That was sent with the LIVE inspection of the postmaster and APPROVAL of same.

Furthermore much of what is alleged in the article is false on several other basis'.

In short it is FUD.

Where are the motors physically now? Who paid for them? Is it a non-commercial transaction?

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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Never seen that before. Very interesting.

-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1

Reply to
J.A. Michel

To say the least. Actually, I find it quite refreshing. It sheds light on vermin that some have been unable to see clearly. Unless of course, it is being read through tinted lenses.

steve

Reply to
default

Yea, and there's more;-- I like this fetching stuff. Maybe there will be future installments as I become more proficient. (;-) I'm kinda new to this computer s*%t, don't you know....

Fred

"J.A. Michel" wrote:

Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace

In reading through all the correspondence a couple things come to mind.......

1 .......much as in this state an 18 year old can serve liquor,but cannot consume such until 21.......can a salesman be under 21 and still sell rocket motors? Seems to be much the same scenario.....dunno, just a question. If they can't, it seems it prevents gainful employment (much the reason for 18 year old servers) so it's probably history if challenged.

2 ........it seems someone in Oregon owes USRockets a few motors, or cash.......call it recieving stolen property or what ever you like, but the man and/or company should have been given the opportunity to retrieve his property......irregardless of what the concerned citizens may have decided. Of course there may be correspondence which is missing/incorrect/conveniently forgotten/yet to see the light of day.........if so let's see it.

3.........TRA *contacted* the ATF? I'll sit on the sidelines a bit longer before passing judgement, but it's not looking good for the TRA guys here. It may go down in history as a dark day, but I'll wait to see more concrete info.
Reply to
Chuck Rudy

I wonder what precipitated this disclosure, ... hmmm

- iz

W. E. Fred Wallace wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Point(s).

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Yes I would like a clarification on the "motive" from the "motivator" (please).

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Winningstad instigated the kid to burn you. Winningstad engineered my departure from the local club as prefect. Winningstad had the motors in the safe in his basement. Winningstad has a long history as a thief, including the theft of rockets and reload casings found on the range at Millican. He has been in bed with Kelly for years.

-- Jim McLaughlin

Please don't just hit the reply key. Remove the obvious from the address to reply.

Reply to
Jim McLaughlin

See below from D.W; all the motivation I needed...

Fred

You know that there's ways and then there's ways... a lot depends on how you ask the question... look at what seems to have happened to Fred W. - he apparently managed to give whoever he talked to at DOT the impression that he was under the impression that something fishy was going on... and people ended up spooking each other with nervous noises about "government investigation".

-dave w

Jerry Irv> Yes I would like a clarification on the "motive" from the "motivator" > (please).

Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace

They were **pissed** when DOT told them they didn't have jurisdiction and USPS had to handle it.

As far as I am concerned this and 2 dozen other turn-ins just like it are what has brought hardship from federales. They OBSERVE a problem (even a TRA fabricated one) and move to "solve" it.

Thanks Bruce and "Winingstad".

Remember this was an "accounted" shipment to see how it would go with the mass of the units. The test was a failure not because of any shipping issues but because it instantly triggered an investigation despite the "blessed" status of it.

USPS was prepared to allow SU by mail up to 1 pound per grain. Would that have been helpful in light of NO ATF permits needed to receive those and no hazmat fees?

Just checking.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

but why wait until now to make the disclosure?

- iz

W. E. Fred Wallace wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

I wouldn't call it a disclosure, it's been out there for years. BTW, If you read the whole thing, there is enough bull shit in it for everyone. IMO, what Jerry did is questionable and the response from BK seems vindictive. Franks response is nothing more than a personal grudge issue, given the history between him an Jerry. Your analysis may be different, as I'm sure the whole mess is more complex than my simple perception.

Fred

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace

No, that about covers it Fred.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

IZ.. If you had any history or knowledge of the whole JI mess, you'd realize that this is not new info.. This was on ROL for years.....

Wasn't that the time that ROL got shut down due to JI's mass of self-serving posts, and the reason to-this-day that he cannot post in the ROL forums? (ya never see JI post there, do ya?)

Have JI send you an RMR t-shirt for your efforts, but please understand that JI has been claiming the same info for 5+ years, looking to hook new people to his cause, and you got bit bad - here, on the TRA server, and who knows where else!

Ok.. If Jerry wants to get certified, I'll pose the same I did directly to him 3-4 years back.. Get the paperwork he thinks is required, scan it and post it along with copies of e-mails to-from him during the cert process (including shipping info), and let people judge by that... "Here TMT - I gave you this paperwork" "Hey Jerry, here's a problem...."

He didn't do it years ago, and I know he won't do it now, as it will put him in a box and FINALLY shut him up!

Reply to
AZ Woody

Incredibly interesting.......so if this rings true, this character Kelly knowingly accepted stolen property? Across state lines?

Reply to
Chuck Rudy

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