Keep your Launch field , Here is how

I heard about this 'meeting'. Actually it sounded like an Arnold fest. I wouldn't want to try and discuss things with Arnold, he is a bumbling fool. He doesn't have the capability to conceptualize anyone else's thoughts or ideas. With him it is either his way, or his way. So you fixed some errors and modified Arnolds wording, but did Arnold actually concede any points? Highly unlikely.

On the contrary, they are taking this club away from me. The club of Frontier is gone.

Why were the dues not increased in the past to help defer some of this cost? Why were lifetime memberships not presented to the members for some large amount? Why did the club not seek donations from members to help cover expense?

The only dangerous failures I saw on that field were Arnolds, and I would assume he took the same precautions. A properly built and used rocket is not a threat to anyone, increasing the complexity of the rocket for someone that does not understand what is being added is dangerous. But if they are club rules, the club can do what they want. But these are not club rules.

But this is not a business, its a hobby. Frontier used to be a club, like all the others. Why does this special interest group have to be created, above and beyond the club? Why not keep the club, nominate officers, vote them in, and move on? Do you really think the land owner is not going to understand voting? It's just Arnolds big head that thinks that no-one can do it as good as him.

If the early days were done for the club, then the club would still exist. But dissolving the club and creating some entity to retain power, just seems wrong in so many ways. Dissolve the BoD and rebuild the club.

R/C clubs is the key word here. The $45 is not going to any club. You would still have to pay some form of dues to the club that wants to fly there, but I suspect one will never form. Rebuild Frontier, the club, and make the fee whatever is needed, ask for donations to fill the gap and fly rockets.

Again, why was this not addressed years ago? And how is requiring $45 going to increase the number of fliers such that the field cost is paid? It wont. Every launch I went to the launch fee was covered. And they said they might have to ask for donations if it wasn't, they didn't have to. I never saw a group email go out asking for any donations either. I am sorry you had to lay out any money, that never should have happened. It sounds like the club was mishandled from the beginning, but if you are just starting mistakes will be made. Don't abandon the club because of these mistakes, make changes within the club and continue on.

And what is wrong with keeping the club, and having them in charge?

Ya, that sounds all well and good. But in most situations, when the club president gets burned out. They decline to be voted on the next year and let someone else take the responsibility. But since Arnold wont have anyone with power over him, he wont let go. Another thing that other clubs do is create different positions to spread out the workload.

The point is, there should not be such an entity known as the BoD. A quote from above is, "improve the club". I fail to see how creating a separate entity can be good for the club. This is not done by other clubs, why not? Simply because its not required.

The club simply needs re-organization and possibly new management. I know you and Oliver try hard. But I also know it can be hard to work with someone like Arnold. The two of you must be walking on egg shells all the time.

Imagine if you will, a club without Arnold. A bit of reorganization and rethinking of the way its run and it could be similar to all the other clubs in the nation. But with Arnold in the picture it has to be done by him. If its not his idea, its a bad idea. I know his personality and have to deal with people like that all the time.

I have no issues with you or Oliver, I know you guys try. But quite simply, many people I have talked to just don't want to deal with Arnold so simply didn't bother going to the meeting. That's the same reason many stopped going to launches. I wanted to bring the concerns of the silent fliers to the table. Those are the ones that just want to fly rockets and don't want to deal with having Arnold mad at them for opposing his ideas.

I brought this discussion to a public forum because I was hoping someone out there could tell me why this plan is better than the way every other club in the country does it. This plan is obviously a way to keep Arnold in charge. That can be seen on the face of it. Because he knows if it were up to a vote of the fliers he would be gone.

Good luck Robert DeHate

Reply to
Robert DeHate
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Meglomaniacs are downright common in rocketry.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

THIS should be in the FAQ!

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

You might check with TRA Kommand. They ahve a long history of shutting down folks who tamper with their rules, making things safer or more restrictive.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Having no one in the building doesn't fix the problem. You need to be sure nothing will ever be built within 1500' of your launch area. This makes the minumum field size close to a square mile.

That sounds like fun...

OK, that too.

OK, we'll let their insides in. But only the muscle and bones. Mostly I hate their guts.

:-(

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Remember, Signs need to be in pictures for those who can't read or don't understand the language prevalent in that part of the world. :) :)

Reply to
Chris Rose

Yes points were conceeded. There were errors and after it was pointed out, we made changes that made sense.

Very dramatic statement but if you are 1) qualified to join and 2) able to afford $45 in a year then the club is open to you.

There are all good questions and it is too bad you didn't come to the open meeting. Why not in the past? Mostly because in the past we didn't realize there *was* a deductable and they membership was very low in the beginning. Lifetime membership? A possibility worthy of discussion. Donations? I would say that about 10-15% of the members paid more than their share in lanch fees and donated equipment to help. Without them, we woudl have been further behind.

To quote a great President, "there you go again"..... Yes Arnold has had his share of bad hybrid flights. But this is not about Arnold. This is about Frontier Rocketry and the future -- not of what was but what is to be.

Think of it, if you join FR and were a volunteer RSO, you could bust Arnold's chops if he didn't meet the NAR/TRA/FR codes! Now wouldn't you enjoy that?

:-)

It is a business to the landowners. If we presented ourselves as hobbyts with a less than professional and consistant interface to the rocket activites, they just might deem it not worth the while and the risk. As it is, we are only there because we know someone who knows the head honcho. I can't tell you how hard it is to find a field out here. I have perhaps 1/2 dozen letters written to landowers across the greater Boston area asking for permission to fly. Other than our present field, the answer was no.

Check out the troubles the other regional club have keeping their fields. We do in fact have a very special field and hence a special interest in keeping it.

Hey, it's our call and I think its a good one. We do provide the opportunity for club members to run for TRA/NAR positions and to run the launch, collect flight fees, buy equipment, etc....

the BoD has been in effect since we obtained the field. We are allowing the clubs to build whatever clubs they wish within the very reasonable guidlines.

It's building in the insurance deducatable which reduces the risks to all the the Bod, the clubs and the flyers.

The data I see on members already signed up does not support your suspicons.

OK. Let's say we have 30 memebers who want to fly 9 times a year and cover the insurance deductable... that's about $128/year. Are you game?

Hindsight is always 20-20.

No. We don't want the group to increase. We want it to decrease for two reasons: 1) parking and 2) safety. By raising the fees we have few flyers, we have a safer field, we raise more money for the insurance.

Robert, we did what we had to do to get the club going. In the beginning there wasn't alot of people to ask for donations. Again, it's like a business, if you really love something and want it to suceed then you are willing to make the sacrifice. We now have the members/enthusiam/expertise to make the next move.

The club still exists. They NAR/TRA members are in charge. We just keep an eye out because it's the BoD butts on the line if something goes wrong. Trust but verify (there's that Great Pres again).

We believe that this is the best way to not lose a field. If you got no field, you got no club so we are really preserving the club although you seem to think we are dissolving it.

Look it's late and I need sleep.

I know Arnold can be bombastic at times but he's been a much greater asset to the club that you realize. I also believe the new structure will let him fly rockets and others keep the club in line. It will save the BoD butts from personal misfortune (sorta) and will give autonomy to the flyers who are deserving of nothing less given the great talent and enthusiam they have shown over the past several years.

I appreciate the wishes of good luck. Come visit us sometime and see how it's going. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Cheers, Mike Bellino Director, Frontier Rocketry

Reply to
Mike Bellino

I think I'd allow ATVs, if being used by rocket or free flight folks for recovery purposes...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

___ / \ | | __ _ | | __ __ / \/ \| |/ \/ \ | | | | | |

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Bob, then the kids would NEVER get any exercise.

Besides, have you seen the accident rate on those things? If I was an insurance company I'd rather sell policies to a safer group than ATV and snowmobilers

Like rocketeers for instance

Reply to
tater schuld

Isn't that why you had kids in the first place?

Reply to
NaCl

Mike, I'm just starting in on this thread after being away from RMR off and on for a couple of months. I have a couple of questions and a comment. Question #1: Am I correct in assuming that Frontier Rocketry isn't really a club, but an intermediate between clubs and the landowner? Question #2: Why do you feel that you will be on the hook for the $2500 deductable in the event of an accident? Isn't the onus to pay the deductable on the flier first, the club secondly and TRA thirdly? OK, that was technically uestions 2&3... Now for the comment. Unlike Arnold, you maintained your composure while answering Robert's difficult questions and harsh statements. You didn't attack him, personally. You addressed his statements in a very professional manner and that, IMHO, lent more credibility to what you had to say. While I'm sitting here in MI scratching my head trying to follow this thread, it is refreshing to read a cogent post that addresses inflammatory accusations and defuses them with such tact. If you're going to be at LDRS, look me up. I'll buy you a beer.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

One last thought. I heard several derogatory statements made about MA's liberalism. One can only speculate what the rest of the country would be like if their favorite son, John Kerry became president in 2004. I shudder to think....

Reply to
Mark Simpson

The insured pays the deductible.

Ditto.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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