More Tripoli hypocrisy?

My gosh, you're right! How dare they do something that promotes the hobby and keeps the organization solvent!

Geez, get a life.

It says the challenge is at an "adjoining site"

You've got that wrong. There are occasions when I disagree with TRA. There are TRA policies I don't agree with completely. The difference is, I see these as simple disagreements, not some other excuse to attack TRA, the BOD, Bruce Kelly, etc.

To paraphrase the bible, I believe that "Man was not created to serve the law, the law was created to serve Man." In other words, rules and regulations should not be too rigid, nor should adherence be too strictly enforced.

Making exceptions according to the rules IS following the rules.

And if we become as rigid, uncompromising and devoid of reason as the ATF, then what's the difference?

That's one issue on which I can agree.

Adjacent site, separate launch. This is allowed under TRA rules. We've done it a few times in the Pacific Northwest, at the Brothers, OR site.

No smoking gun, sorry.

Mike Fisher Binder Design

This is allowed, for different values of "Tuesday". After all, part of Tuesday is just Wednesday eve. And it's Wednesday somewhere by then :-(

Never let a TRA rule get in the way of doing whatever we want in spite of the rules. Unless that rule is against Irvine or Kosdon or Tindell or Vosecek or Kaplow or Cato or someone like that.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Because you ain't the Discovery channel. Discovery can also go for rides with the Thunderbirds and on nuclear submarines, none of which you or I get to do without a significant personal investment. If the US military can make exceptions for Discovery, why can't TRA?

Oh wait, I know. JAFE.

Exactly?

I don't get it.

;-)

Sorry, Ray, but that is a CROCK of $H!T. Either you have rules or you don't. Either you follow your rules, or you don't. TRA has a long history of following them when it's convenient, ignoring them when they get in the way, and using them as an excuse to get rid of someone they don't like.

It's a double standard. Make that a triple standard. It's hypocrisy at it's worst. And it's what we've come to expect from TRA.

Oh, yes, it also invalidates TRA's insurance for the event :-) So much for all that money you spend for insurance...

BTW, I reviewed the minutes when they voted to increase the LDRS insurance surcharge from $1500 plus $5 per person to $1500 plus $20 per person. ZERO indication that ANY of this money actually goes to the insurance company. Orem just wants a bigger tithe for themselves. It goes straight to the TRA pockets. Yet no one cares that your own organization is screwing you twice for insurance,

It looks like the Kloudbusters are paying about $5500 just for the right to use the name LDRS-22! What would happen if they were to cancel LDRS, and instead hold "Dorothy and Toto 2003" at the same site, at the same time, without the TRA insurance surcharge?

Seems like you could cut $30 per person out of the LDRS budget. $40 if you remove the manditory legal fund contribution that's attached to the banquet. A full 42% of the funds you pay for LDRS go straight back to HQ. That leaves

Make it so! Or at least make this the last LDRS that coughs up funds for no return. And DEMAND a refund from the BoD!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Sorry Bob, but I gotta go with Ray on this one. Being flexible to enable some favorable TV coverage for a hobby that's under attack constantly sure sounds like a win-win situation to me. Following arbitrary rules just for the sake of saying that you followed them is way to AR for my likes. By being accomodating, the hobby stands to gain some favorable press. Isn't that worth anything in your book?

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

This would imply that ATF actually cares about the "consumer/experimental" distinction, and that NFPA-style "motor certification" actually satisfies some "need to see us regulated" on their part.

I don't think this is the case... there may be some kind of issue with local fire safety authorities, depending on if (and how) their codes link in NFPA specifications, but if the applicable County Fire Marshal (or whoever is the actual AHJ) is OK with having an "experimental" day (i.e., with motors being flown that weren't supplied through the "certified consumer market") in the first place, I doubt they'd consider the hazard to be increased by the concurrent flight of "consumer" motors.

-dave w

And that is the point. Why should members follow arbitrary rules when clearly better for the good of the hobby for them not to exist?

We find any legal loophole we can get away with to pursue our hobbies when dealing with the government, why do we have to do that(say that the people flying commercial motors are on a different site) with organization that is supposed to be supporting our hobby also?

Pax

Bob, you just don't get it. We make the rules. We realize that in some cases, flexibility is needed. So We provided a way to allow that flexibility while maintaining oversight.

First off, as someone else pointed out this is all moot, since the TV event is separate from the LDRS event.

Secondly, I believe that the insurance merely requires compliance with TRA rules. Not "Bob's Unyielding, Unchanging Carved In Stone Law", just whatever rules TRA sets.

And that proves... what? Absolutely nothing, except maybe your own anti-TRA paranoia.

Why does Jerry Irvine come up in every discussion? From the first launch I attended people were talking about what a crook he was. I knew nothing of him but what some old heads were saying about him. Came across his site once and asked about it not knowing it was his. Everyone warned don't do business with him so I didn't. He struck up some deal with a local here to have some nose cones made and it fell apart. I think they were both trying to rip each other off. IMHO. Met a guy here that had some of his motors and asked why he would buy from him or risk sending him money. He said he buys them from him at a launch he attends and if Jerry is standing in front of him he runs a lower risk of getting ripped off. Makes sense to me. Again why does his name come up so often? Is it just because this is trash hole chat room or is it just fun to keep hashing up his exploits what ever they are? I guess the big question is...Who is Jerry Irvine?

P.S. The only statement you make against TRA that is heard is not sending them dues. All of this crap is just crap. If you like what they do send money and if you don't then don't.

I'm outta here like the fat kid in a dodge ball game.

Jerry must be out of town or something. He'll be answering this shortly.

J.A. Michel

And to be sure to have an exception to the "Jerry-rule" when it gets in THEIR way.

TRA had heart palpetations when Kosdon had a launch at Lucerne Dry lake at a different site than a ROC type lauch. They asked him to go away. It is not about procedure, but "favored or unfavored status" of the person at issue.

Jerry

It is widely known as the Jerry Irvine rule.

Jerry