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LEUP w/indoor storage-I'm going in!

Sorry in advance for the long post.

I'm going to try for a LEUP with an indoor storage waiver. I live in a typical NJ neighborhood with less than ½ acre of land. I can't have an outdoor storage magazine since I don't have enough property to meet the 75ft minimum in the table of distances in the Orange Book.

So I'm going to make an appointment to see the local fire official here in Plainsboro NJ and see if he will permit me to store an explosives magazine in my attached garage. As luck would have it, the house is pretty new, and the building codes around here are very tough. The sheet rock in the garage is 5/8" thick. So my garage walls have a one-hour fire resistance rating.

The door between the garage and the house appears to be fire rated as well. It is metal and the part the faces the garage appears to be extra thick (you can see this when looking at the side of the door). The builder also installed UL-rated, spring-loaded hinges that say "door closer body". Unfortunately, the door hinges do not close the door (I think the springs are too weak). I could install a door closer to remedy this. These things appear to address most of the issues with storage of a magazine in an attached garage.

As far as I can see, I should be OK with a high quality Type-2 or Type-4 explosives magazine. I really cannot see any reason why an indoor magazine would pose a problem.

I've tried to read everything I could to prepare for the meeting. I looked up the various codes as best I could. For those who may attempt the same thing, here is what I found so far:

I went to the local library and began looking up codes as best I could. I read the Plainsboro code, which essentially adopts the New Jersey Uniform Fire Code. I did not see anything in either of these codes that cover the storage of explosives. In fact, based on some confusing language in the Plainsboro code, it is not entirely clear to me that either of these codes apply to "owner-occupied one and two-family dwellings." But like I said, these codes did not say anything about explosives storage. I also checked my housing covenants and they don't say anything about explosives storage.

I also did a text search for explosives in the NJ Administrative Code. I did find some text relating to explosives at 12:190-5.1 et seq. This section is entitled "Subchapter 5 - Storage of Explosives." Perhaps Plainsboro follows this part of the NJ Administrative Code, perhaps not.

In any event, the only issue I see here is that the NJ Administrative Code defines a metal Type-4 magazine as having 16-gauge metal, lined with a nonsparking material. Every Type-4 magazine that I have seen uses 18-gauge metal ? a much thinner gauge. So, if Plainsboro follows the NJ Administrative Code, I might need a Type-2 magazine.

So the local Fire official is the next step. Wish me luck!

Dan

Reply to
Dan
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A few thoughts -

You were unclear as to weather yours is a single or two family dwelling. If it is a teo family dwelling and you want to keep it in your attached garage, the ATF almost certainly won't give you a storage permit. If it is ann attached garage & you live in a single family dwelling, you can probably get approved with a waiver.

I can't imagine NJ not allowing the commercial magazines we normally use. I don't think I'd mention it but if they do, I'd just say that it is an ATF approved Type 2 or 4 magazine for low explosives and your stuff isn't explosive anyway. Here's the place that advertises in Rockets Magazine

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looks like that shold have anything you need.

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

It's a single family home. I've got my fingers crossed.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

You've probably got 'bomber' hinges. Look on the top and see if there aren't several holes in them, and a pin in one. If so, get a small finish nail which fits in the hole. Now be smart about it, figure out how strong the spring is before you pull the pin. The idea is to remove the pin, pull against the tension a couple spots, replace the pin, repeat. Do this until you get the springs taut enough to close the door. Remember don't grab it all with one hinge, all three will do the work.

If that works you've saved the cost of a door closer.

Chuck

Reply to
Chuck Rudy

Good luck Dan. In NJ you need a permit for your dog to fart. The town council will most likely ask you to get a variance. Your neighbors will need to sign. Go door to door and tell them you need permission to store explosives next to them. Wear a turban and bow a lot. Tom

Reply to
Tom Biasi

Cuchk, that was a great suggestion. You were exactly right.

The builder did not install any pins - hence no spring tension. I found some round rod and made some pins. I turned the insert part (it has an allen key opening) until I got some spring tension. Then I stuck some pins in ... and voila now the door closes automatically.

Thanks, Dan

Reply to
Dan

I'll send you the bill........it will cost you 5 rock_it exposing posts......and you know where. ;-)

Chuck

Reply to
Chuck Rudy

The bill is in the mail. ;-)

Chuck

Reply to
Chuck Rudy

Dont wait too long.

Its 4 months, 2 weeks since application was filed. Succesful ATF inspection in June. Still waiting....

Dan wrote:

Reply to
jdMARS

Did you need a seperate magazine for ignitors ? I would sure hate to buy two magazines.

Thanks, Dan

Reply to
Dan

Up here in NY you the local ATF says a separate magazine will be needed to store ignitors. If you do not plan to store ignitors, or use non-pyro ignition (resistors) or obtain your igniters on site you will only need 1 magazine.

Dan wrote:

Reply to
jdMARS

The federal variance conditions for storage in an attached garage state that storage of igniters is in a separate magazine. I took that to mean the e-matches as well. I have two magazines for storage and I separate the igniters from the rest of the reloads as I get them.

This is a requirement of the variance for attached garage storage. You can still transport your material or store it while at the launch site in one magazine.

Yes, it sucks.

Reply to
Thomas Koszuta

Just to be clear -- is this a requirement only for an attached garage? Does it apply to a detached garage, or to a separate shed? And in regards to a shed, are there any specific requirements in relation to one? Thanks in advance for any information, while I'm still donating to the legal fund and hoping to have legislative/judicial relief, it looks as though I may have to apply for a LEUP myself...

David Erbas-White

Thomas Koszuta wrote:

Reply to
David Erbas-White

This is a requirement for ATF to grant the variance to allow storage in an attached garage, only.

Tom K.

Reply to
Thomas Koszuta

That was mentioned to me when I got my permit. When I showed ths guy that they were shipped with the igniter inside the sealed bag, he let it slide.

Not all igniters are regulated. If you are using unregulated igniters, I wouldn't have them around of mention it to them. If you are using regulated ignitors, you have to do whatever they want. It makes sense not to put the stuff that lights the stuff you are trying to protect yourself from in the same box. If it comes up, maybe offer to put the ignitors in an ammo box inside the magazine. Being inside the magazine makes it secure and the ammo box keeps the two things seperate. This will probably not be an acceptable solution for some agents but maybe you'll get lucky and get one that knows what they're dealing with.

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

OK, here is a quick update. I'm still not sure whether I can get local approval.

I did have a telephone discussion with the local fire official. I really just wanted to make an appointment to come and see him in person. But he naturally wanted to know why I called. We discussed the ATF permit process. I explained that I needed certify to the ATF that my storage method complies with state and local laws. The fire official was very nice about the request.

He was not familiar with high power rocket engines. He said that he needed to do some research on the topic before he could tell me anything. He confirmed that there are no local laws covering storage of this kind of stuff. He also confirmed that he wanted to look at some provisions of the NFPA. I mentioned that NFPA 1127 covered this subject matter. I don't think he wanted any additional information from me, so I did not push. He did say he would get back to me in the next day or so.

So ? I still have my fingers crossed.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Dan wrote: > OK, here is a quick update. I'm still not sure whether I can get > local approval. >

Dan, the fire official where I live in NJ has dealt with at least two of us so far, with no issue. I store in my detached garage, so my situation is a bit different than yours. But if you think it would help if your fire official talked with his counterpart here, contact me off-list.

Reply to
Steve Humphrey

OK, I'll send you an e-mail. It can't hurt to have a back up plan.

Thanks, Dan

Reply to
Dan

Get the MSDS and DOT documents for the engines/reloads to take to the fire marshal. When I first talked to the local fire marshal, he went ballistic. When he saw the rating, he told me that state and local law did not even cover them (class C).

My local building code requires a 1 hour wall, but only a 20 minute door between the house and garage and does not require UL listed closers. ATF requires a 1 hour door and your metal door may well have that rating. It is printed on a label on the edge of the hinge side. ATF also requires a UL listed closer (which can be gotten at Home Depot).

Good Luck, Larry

Reply to
Larry

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