LEUP w/indoor storage-I'm going in!

Read the ATF regulations carefully and you will see that they require separate storage of _detonators_ but no mention of igniters.

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This separate storage thing is something pulled from out of thin air by the ATF. If you look at their published ruling on attached garage variances, it makes no mention of this requirement.

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This ruling does require that the storage be in compliance with local law. My local fire code says that storage and use of rocket motors will comply with NFPA 1122, 1125, and 1127. NFPA 1127 has a provision stating that reload kits will not be opened until you are ready to use them. (4.5.7) So opening the package to remove the igniter would put me in non-compliance with the local code.

I am not sure why the ATF has a problem with this. Most display fireworks are now shipped from the factory with an e-match installed in the lift charge. So there are many tons of explosives currently stored in the US that have an "igniter" not only in the same magazine but in close contact with the explosive. If this were a serious problem, fireworks magazines would be blowing up on a very regular basis. They aren't.

David Erbas-White wrote:

Reply to
David Schultz
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Wait a minute, I thought the purpose of the box was to prevent _theft_.

Reply to
David Schultz

Where does it say any of that? Perhaps your local agent is making up their own rules.

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

OK, I did not receive a call from the local fire official today, maybe tomorrow. I realize that I just started on this whole permit thing. This is going to be a long haul.

Let's assume that I am unable to get approval for an indoor magazine in my attached garage. Could I put my Type 4 indoor magazine in an outdoor shed ?

I was planning on building a small storage shed (perhaps 10 x 10) for my tractor and other yard related stuff. My housing covenants state that the shed must be wood with a shingle roof. So I cannot build a metal shed or anything like that. This shed is not going to meet the orange book table of distances. For example it will be about 15 feet from the property line and about 20 feet from the house.

I could theoretically have a slab poured for the foundation. I'm not sure whether I could do anything about making the shed fireproof. I guess I could be sheetrock the walls and ceiling. Also, the tractor is going to be in there. I could store the gas cans in the garage but there is going to be some gasoline in the shed.

I'm just trying to come up with a plan. Any comments would be appreciated.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Just an idea for something that might make the ATF happy without having to buy two magazines. SOme people already have bought two. If you are trying to apply logic, you would use a flammables cabinet instead of a magazine.

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

I've heard of plywood sheds qualifying for "indoor" storage. Fire rating is only a concern between the storage area and living areas.

Your Fire Department might not agree to a shed 15 feet from the property line. My Fire Department wanted it to be 25 feet away from the property line. Somewhere in NFPA regs it says 25 feet away from open flames and smoking - I can't control what happens on the other side of the property line. My FD preferred garage storage. So I use the shed to hold the junk that used to be in the garage! Actually a better solution for me. I do have to use a separate magazine for ignitors which is a PITA.

Ir> Let's assume that I am unable to get approval for an indoor magazine

Reply to
Alex Mericas

Still no word from the fire marshal.

I kinda figured the shed may not work. If storage in the attached garage is not possible, I'll ask the fire marshal about using an indoor magazine in a shed.

I'll have to think about the whole hybrid thing.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Or..........

Hope to high heaven some relief is obtained from the lawsuit and we are left alone. I find it absolutely ludicrous to require all this bullcrap to allow one to keep a few high powered loads. How many K or greater loads can one afford to launch in a season? There are most likely people storing large numbers of the smaller so-called legal composite and BP motors (G and below) in their homes with no problems and nobody knows about it! This is because the majority of us are cautious and careful and APCP is actually tougher to ignite than BP. HPR as a hobby is going to whither significantly unless judicial relief is obtained. Rocketry as a whole will revert back to a kids' hobby with only the low powered commercially available engines.

AKS

Reply to
Kurt

This is the desired outcome the federal agencies are seeking.

Reply to
Darrell D. Mobley

OK, I touched based with the fire marshal today. We had a fairly lengthy conversation on this whole issue. He has not made a determination yet. It is pretty clear that the guy is working on the issue. He is trying to look at the facts and the regulations and make a rational decision. I still have my fingers crossed.

I have identified yet another potential issue. My garage has typical garage doors, but it also has a regular door to the outside (a service door). The service door has glass in it, therefore I can all but guarantee it is not fire rated. Since the garage is side entry, it also has two windows that face the street. So my question is this. If I have one-hour rated garage walls, and good fire-rated door with self closing hinges between the house and the garage ? is that enough? Will I have to replace the service door with a fire rated door? Will I have to remove the windows ? (this would not be allowed by the housing association).

Dan

Reply to
Dan

If you have 5/8 fire rated sheetrock then you have 45min walls (someone correct me if I am wrong).

In any event it does not matter you are getting a variance anyways.

The service door is to the outside. Fire ratings only apply to barriers to the living space.

Dan wrote:

Reply to
jdMARS

In the mean time, what has your insurance agent said about your home policy with an explosives magazine in the garage?

Reply to
rocketflier

Correcting myself, 5/8 gives an hour fire rating....

jdMARS wrote:

Reply to
jdMARS

A 2x4 stud wall with 5/8" fire rated sheetrock on both sides is a 1 hour wall. There are other ways to get the 1 hour rating, but this is the most common.

Larry

jdMARS wrote:

Reply to
Larry

..

Indoor mags in sheds are indoor storage, so no distance requirements, etc..

no need for metal sheds, those specs are for outdoor mags.

Reply to
AlMax

OK, here is an update with some good news. I spoke to the local fire marshal again today. He is OK with indoor storage of rocket motors in my attached garage using a commercial Type-4 indoor storage magazine. So, my storage plan is OK from a state and local standpoint.

I explained that I need write a letter to the ATF (a certification letter) that states my storage plan complies with state and local laws. I also have to provide proof that a copy of the certification letter was delivered to my local fire official. So I told him I would send him a copy of the letter and the attachments via certified mail. He said he was going to send me a letter confirming my storage plan is OK, so I should be in good shape.

My magazines are on order and should be here in the next two weeks. Once I get the magazines, I will complete the application and send it in. I think I'm in good shape for compliance with the ATF rules. Again, I have my fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I'm sure I will post an update if anything new or exciting happens.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Dan,

If you haven't sent the LEUP application in, don't bother waiting. ATF takes forever to process it and they are likely to contact the Fire Marshall even though you have a letter.

Phil

Reply to
Philip Stein

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