LEUP w/indoor storage-I'm going in!

Dan wrote: > OK, here is a quick update. I'm still not sure whether I can get > local approval. > > I did have a telephone discussion with the local fire official ...
> He did say he would get back to me in the next day or so.
Dan, the fire official where I live in NJ has dealt with at least two of us so far, with no issue. I store in my detached garage, so my situation is a bit different than yours. But if you think it would help if your fire official talked with his counterpart here, contact me off-list.
--
Steve Humphrey
(replace "spambait" with "merlinus" to respond directly to me)
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OK, I'll send you an e-mail. It can't hurt to have a back up plan.
Thanks, Dan
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:52:45 -0400, Steve Humphrey

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Get the MSDS and DOT documents for the engines/reloads to take to the fire marshal. When I first talked to the local fire marshal, he went ballistic. When he saw the rating, he told me that state and local law did not even cover them (class C).
My local building code requires a 1 hour wall, but only a 20 minute door between the house and garage and does not require UL listed closers. ATF requires a 1 hour door and your metal door may well have that rating. It is printed on a label on the edge of the hinge side. ATF also requires a UL listed closer (which can be gotten at Home Depot).
Good Luck, Larry
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Where does it say any of that? Perhaps your local agent is making up their own rules.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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OK, I did not receive a call from the local fire official today, maybe tomorrow. I realize that I just started on this whole permit thing. This is going to be a long haul.
Let's assume that I am unable to get approval for an indoor magazine in my attached garage. Could I put my Type 4 indoor magazine in an outdoor shed ?
I was planning on building a small storage shed (perhaps 10 x 10) for my tractor and other yard related stuff. My housing covenants state that the shed must be wood with a shingle roof. So I cannot build a metal shed or anything like that. This shed is not going to meet the orange book table of distances. For example it will be about 15 feet from the property line and about 20 feet from the house.
I could theoretically have a slab poured for the foundation. I'm not sure whether I could do anything about making the shed fireproof. I guess I could be sheetrock the walls and ceiling. Also, the tractor is going to be in there. I could store the gas cans in the garage but there is going to be some gasoline in the shed.
I'm just trying to come up with a plan. Any comments would be appreciated.
Dan
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I've heard of plywood sheds qualifying for "indoor" storage. Fire rating is only a concern between the storage area and living areas.
Your Fire Department might not agree to a shed 15 feet from the property line. My Fire Department wanted it to be 25 feet away from the property line. Somewhere in NFPA regs it says 25 feet away from open flames and smoking - I can't control what happens on the other side of the property line. My FD preferred garage storage. So I use the shed to hold the junk that used to be in the garage! Actually a better solution for me. I do have to use a separate magazine for ignitors which is a PITA.
Ironically I can store my Hypertek M reload anywhere in the house. A Pro38 G79 reload has to go in the Type 4 magazine.
Dan wrote:

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Still no word from the fire marshal.
I kinda figured the shed may not work. If storage in the attached garage is not possible, I'll ask the fire marshal about using an indoor magazine in a shed.
I'll have to think about the whole hybrid thing.
Dan
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:05:36 -0500, Alex Mericas

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Dan wrote:

Or..........
Hope to high heaven some relief is obtained from the lawsuit and we are left alone. I find it absolutely ludicrous to require all this bullcrap to allow one to keep a few high powered loads. How many K or greater loads can one afford to launch in a season? There are most likely people storing large numbers of the smaller so-called legal composite and BP motors (G and below) in their homes with no problems and nobody knows about it! This is because the majority of us are cautious and careful and APCP is actually tougher to ignite than BP. HPR as a hobby is going to whither significantly unless judicial relief is obtained. Rocketry as a whole will revert back to a kids' hobby with only the low powered commercially available engines.
AKS
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Kurt wrote:

This is the desired outcome the federal agencies are seeking.
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"Dan" <NJ> wrote in message
....

..
Indoor mags in sheds are indoor storage, so no distance requirements, etc..
no need for metal sheds, those specs are for outdoor mags.
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OK, I touched based with the fire marshal today. We had a fairly lengthy conversation on this whole issue. He has not made a determination yet. It is pretty clear that the guy is working on the issue. He is trying to look at the facts and the regulations and make a rational decision. I still have my fingers crossed.
I have identified yet another potential issue. My garage has typical garage doors, but it also has a regular door to the outside (a service door). The service door has glass in it, therefore I can all but guarantee it is not fire rated. Since the garage is side entry, it also has two windows that face the street. So my question is this. If I have one-hour rated garage walls, and good fire-rated door with self closing hinges between the house and the garage is that enough? Will I have to replace the service door with a fire rated door? Will I have to remove the windows ? (this would not be allowed by the housing association).
Dan
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If you have 5/8 fire rated sheetrock then you have 45min walls (someone correct me if I am wrong).
In any event it does not matter you are getting a variance anyways.
The service door is to the outside. Fire ratings only apply to barriers to the living space.
Dan wrote:

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Correcting myself, 5/8 gives an hour fire rating....
jdMARS wrote:

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A 2x4 stud wall with 5/8" fire rated sheetrock on both sides is a 1 hour wall. There are other ways to get the 1 hour rating, but this is the most common.
Larry
jdMARS wrote:

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"Dan" <NJ> wrote in message

In the mean time, what has your insurance agent said about your home policy with an explosives magazine in the garage?
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OK, here is an update with some good news. I spoke to the local fire marshal again today. He is OK with indoor storage of rocket motors in my attached garage using a commercial Type-4 indoor storage magazine. So, my storage plan is OK from a state and local standpoint.
I explained that I need write a letter to the ATF (a certification letter) that states my storage plan complies with state and local laws. I also have to provide proof that a copy of the certification letter was delivered to my local fire official. So I told him I would send him a copy of the letter and the attachments via certified mail. He said he was going to send me a letter confirming my storage plan is OK, so I should be in good shape.
My magazines are on order and should be here in the next two weeks. Once I get the magazines, I will complete the application and send it in. I think I'm in good shape for compliance with the ATF rules. Again, I have my fingers crossed.
Thanks for all the helpful comments. I'm sure I will post an update if anything new or exciting happens.
Dan
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:28:00 -0400, Dan <NJ> wrote:

Dan,
If you haven't sent the LEUP application in, don't bother waiting. ATF takes forever to process it and they are likely to contact the Fire Marshall even though you have a letter.
Phil
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